Troublemaking toddler, pathetic parents - what would YOU do?

[MrsMerryHenry]

Today at the library a boy aged not much more than 3 came over to me while I was reading to my DS. He then spat on the book and gave a mischevious smile. I told him off, then his dad came over and said something to the tune of his son having done it behind his back. I said something like 'well, he's a child, don't worry about it'.

Then a few minutes later he came over again and pushed my DS (age 2), then hit me and DS. Again I told him off (both times said something like: 'you do not behave that way'). His dad came over, picked him up and took him back to where his mum and baby sis were sitting. No apology from dad or son. I was in such shock that I didn't say anything, then the woman sitting next to me said the boy had done a similar thing to her, and the father had responded equally limply. All the time this was happening, the boy's mum was looking after her baby but looked over and didn't do or say anything about her spitting, hitting son.

As if that weren't bad enough, my DS, who has never hit me in his life, and who has very clear boundaries set, then hit me a few minutes later. I asked him if he was copying the boy, and so I made it clear to him that he'd better put that thought out of his head. After another attempt he got the picture (the threat of withdrawing a Charlie and Lola book from his possession did the trick!).

Am I being unreasonable here? If it were my DS I would have (a) made him wipe off the spit and apologise; (b) made him apologise after hitting and pushing, and made him hug the child he'd hit; (c) made it clear that such behaviour is unacceptable and that there would be consequences if it happpened again.

It's made me realise that as I'm now more deeply involved in the world of children and parents than I've ever been before, I should perhaps be prepared with a response for future encounters with parents who have no idea how to manage their children's behaviour. I'd like to do this in a firm but kind way (or maybe I should just let them see how pissed off I am). And in a way that hopefully puts paid to any copycat ideas that start lurking around my DS's head.

Any suggestions? How would you handle it?

i may well have been limp depending on the day

we often can't win as parents - it wouldnt have taken much for someone to post " omg in the library today a 3 year old was being naughty, but his paretns reatect well over the top - he is three fgs"

would it..really?

some of us ignore things in public we wouldn't countenance in private

Custardo, even if you didn't whip out your manual on dealing with errant behaviour, don't you think that you'd at least say sorry to the parent concerned?

i think i would have at least made an apologetic eye contact thing - yes

I don't think you should make your ds hug a child he doesn't know in order to apologise for hitting them. For both of my children, that would have rubbed salt into the wound, and they would have hated it more than being hit.

Tbh, if a child does something like that in front of me (ie to me or ds, or obviously to get a reaction from me) I just talk to the child so I would have said "it's not nice to spit" or "no hitting please, be gentle". Or some such.

I realise that some parents don't like other people talking to their children, but I think if you want to give a good example to your own child then you shouldn't accept behaviour from others that you wouldn't from then.

I would expect a nearby parent to intervene but I wouldn't complain to the parent if they didn't, I'd just deal with it myself.

(Obviously all this in reason and in the mildest possible way.)

FallenMadonna, don't get hung up on the stranger issue; the point is how to teach a toddler to say sorry when they've hit/ spat/ pushed or whatever. I know quite a few mums who do the hugging thing because it's a simple 'language' that they can understand at that age.

Custardo - clearly here we differ. I'd apologise out loud and tell my DS to do so too; one of the reasons being that if I only do an eye gesture he won't see this and so will think his behaviour wasn't really all that bad.

My point is that even though quite a few mums might get their children to do it, there are children who would find it upsetting. Even from children they know. So although you think it is a good learning experience for your ds, it isn't always appropriate.

Oh dear MRS MH my DS(3) would have known about the hitting being wrong, he is past that stage but hemay have copied sitting. It makes me sad to think parents are apathetic like this i pity them when he reaches teens whats he gonna be like?

Its terrible when things like this spoil a nice outing for you and your son. I do find now my DS (3) that I am able to expain more to him about wrong behaviour.

Hope your next trip to library is better. x

Fair enough, FallenMadonna, however, now that you've said what you wouldn't do, how would you handle it?

If that was any of my children then yes, I wopuld have got them to say sorry and apologised myself too.
But, you don't know what's going on with the family here about so maybe calling them 'pathetic' might be a bit harsh.. maybe they've had loads of serious problems with their son, and have been instructed to try positive parenting? Or maybe the bloke was just an uncle or friend, and didn't know how to deal with the situation?

Thanks, bigeyes. I have a lovely friend who I certainly wouldn't call apathetic but she was (as she would say) slow to set boundaries with her now 2.5 year old. She then realised maybe about 6 months ago that the only way her DD's quite overwhelming behaviour was going to be more manageable was if she changed her approach as a mother, which she has done. I beleive she'd do things differently with another DC - i.e. start earlier.

My children being naughty, or someone else's?

My own I remove, with an apology to whoever they attacked.

Someone else's, I ask them nicely to desist, while making soothing "we've all been there" noises at the other parents.

My children have not grown up confused as to what I consider to be acceptable behaviour from them.

Yes, Sazisi, I did wonder about the behavioural problems thing - can you detect pissed-off mum overtaking understanding citizen here?

What would I do? I would go home and be thankful (and not smug) that my child was so easy to manage.

Mind you MrsMH we have always been quite firm with DS, he is quite spirited and has loads to say including talking to strangers.

I must say though that he would have said 'NO thats naughty' in library. But we still need to be very firm with him as he seemingly aquires more language he tries to boss us about, and we spend a lot of time telling him to ask and not to speak to mummy or daddy like that.

I have has similar situations where I have thrown a look towards parents and explained to my DS that its wrong or rude etc, even when driving! He says things like drive your car properly to the one in front!

But we get on with it - he had a 'mixed day' at nursery by all accounts.

Not so much smug, Shells, just pissed off. I don't think it's too much to expect an apology, surely?

No, an apology would be appropriate. But you have no idea what the parents are going through, if their child has issues etc. Its not really a huge deal. I'd save your energy for something more significant really.

Yeah, you're right there, about their home life. However it does become a bigger deal when, as I said earlier, my DS starts copycat behaviour!

Mrs MH take comfort in the fact you have given this issue time and thought and will parent a response to any behaviour from you little one accordingly, see it as another opportunity to teach about a boundry that otherwise might not have arisen at home. it helps prepare for outside, as peeeeed off as you might feel about it all.

Shells, why does it matter if their child has issues? They still need to make some form of apology for his bahaviour towards people if he is doing something that is upsetting/distructive. Even if for some reason 'offending' the child doesn't understand.

Also, imo if he does have issues & this is ongoing he needs to be better supervised around children.

In my case it it were dd doing the spitting etc I would almost certainly make her say sorry to whoever she spat at/hit. She would also be told there & then that that isn't acceptable bahaviour.

When we were trying to eat in McD's once (at a large communal table) 3 girls started to literally shove toys in dd's face, try to steal her food & stood on the table...all while their 3 mums looked on & kid you not!.

I told them to leave my dds food alone, not shove toys in her face & leave us alone. I was polite, but firm & said it loud enough for the mums to hear, who them scooted them away & made their exit. But still not even trying to tell them they were wrong!

the offending

spitting, hitting, zero tolerance I think.

Glad to see it's not just me who thinks this way! To be fair they did eventually take their son out, probably for damage limitation but possibly I dare say out of embarassment at hearing the mums talking about their failure to say sorry!