DS1 (2.6) becoming increasingly aggressive towards DS2 (8 weeks) - at a complete loss as to what to do - help!!

[Ceebee74]

Me and DH really don't know how to handle DS1 and his current behaviour - over the last couple of days, he has bitten DS2's hand hard enough to leave 2 nasty scratches, scratched DS2's nose and made it bleed and is constantly trying to pull his hands/feets/poke him in the eye etc.

Although there were a couple of biting incidents within days of DS2 being born, there has not really been anything since apart from the constant poking etc which DS2 seems to ignore and it has felt safe enough to leave them in the same room unattended for a few seconds...but over the last couple of days, it has got so much worse that we literally have to have one of us in the room at all times.

We generally have DS2 in a travel cot out of DS1's reach when downstairs in the lounge (but today, DH left them unsupervised for a while and went back in to find DS1 had thrown tons of stuff into it, including hard books ) but upstairs there is no 'safe' place for DS2 - only the changing mat which DS1 can reach to pull hands etc or DS2's crib which DS1 reaches through the bars.

Do we ignore it, do we use the naughty step (which we have never done before) - DH wants to smack but I want to try everything rather than that.

Any advice as to how to handle it - I know it will be because DS1 is jealous, doesn't know how to handle it etc but why now after 8 weeks? And what can we do to put a stop to it?

I have no experience of this but really feel for you, sibling rivalry is hard work BUT this will pass. He is just asserting his authority of his new brother and the harder you punish him, the worse he will feel. He is still only a toddler himself. Please don't let your DH smack him, he will only be reinforcing that hitting etc is okay.

I would remove him from the room and probably use Time Out for a couple of minutes each time you catch him in the act. He will soon learn it won't get him attention.

Good luck, it really is hard when 1 becomes 2!

I don't know what to suggest, within days of her birth ds (same gap) stratched dd so badly she still has the scar....BUT now they absolutely love each other are currently asleep with their arms wrapped around one another. The first bit is soo hard but it Will get easier (i think it got better once dd wanted to be with ds and started to realyworship him around 16 m. I know it's hard but you can't leave a 2.6 year old in a room with a 8 week old, you just can't. Even if it means taking DS with you to the loo. We had a bouncy chair with handles which was great.I also think punishing him is a bit harsh (smacking is out imo)he is doing it because he is upset and confused, not because he is malicious or cruel. Are you giving him lots of your attention? It helps if you put the baby to sleep in another room so you are all his. Good luck t is hard but so worth it when you see them playing together.(hugs)

Oh sweetheart, its so hard to keep the peace isn't it.

I would try to make a big effort with DS1,to be on his side. IMHO punishments will only push him further away.

Have you tried something along the lines of....

"oh darling, DS2 has been a bit noisy hasn't he....tell you what, when he next takes a nap, shall we try to do something together in the quiet time?" or

"mmmn, you look really angry with your brother, are you mad with him? what has made you mad?"

"DS2 isn't much fun yet is he? He will be much more fun when he is as big as you, what fun things can we do together"

"I've had lots of fun with you and now I must change DS2's nappy, wait til you see it, it will be REALLY SOGGY" and make a big laugh of it.

This is all designed to make him feel like he is still kingpin. You must take care not to keep doing this at an age when DS2 can take offence but for now, it will help DS1 realise he doesn't HAVE to tolerate this thing that has arrived. That he is allowed to feel a bit annoyed.

We are all allowed to feel annoyed. But we must all vent it in an appropriate way.

You could ask him to draw you an angry picture (best done just the two of you without DS2) and get him to vent with fiery colours and scribbling hard. This sounds really stupid but it works wonders with my DS. He is a little older but he gets right into it and ends up laughing at how angry he can be on paper.

HTH

I should say, its hard to keep the balance, whilst he is allowed to be angry and to explain and vent his anger, you must be careful to remind him that you all love DS2.

So "are you fed up with DS2 this morning? he's not much fun just yet, he can't even speak and we have to GUESS what he needs, do you think he's asking for a sandwich?" Then giggle about it. Then you can remind him that its a shame DS2 can't eat sandwiches and that one day he will be bigger and that you can all enjoy a lovely picnic with [insert gorgeous food]" It will help him see that he needs to find compassion (which he is too young to feel but it will come).

Have you tried involving him in the care of the baby? Getting him to fetch nappies, put them in the bin, emphasising that it is his baby too, encouraging stroking and gentle touching (heavily supervised) getting him to show what a good big brother he is, how helpful he is with the baby etc etc.

Try having discussions with your DP about it in front of him, "DS1 is such a good brother, so helpful I think he needs a hug. I don't know what I would do without him etc."

Read him a story, do playdough when babe asleep. You are knackered, this is tough but it will soon pass.

I had a similar age gap and DD1 once smacked DD2 (newborn) really hard in the face in a dentist surgery waiting room in front of an old couple. The husband looked horrified, the wife didn't flinch. Can only think she had been through similarwith her children !

yes I'l also say that be positive all the time, except when he tries to hurt the baby. Then it is zero tolerance. Give him time out and explain that we don't hit each other in this family but that you still love him.
(God I'm making this all sound so easy but in reality it's so tough to deal with.)

And the age-old big hugs and kisses and treats when he does something nice. And the ignoring of him when he doesn't (so if he hits you say "we don't hit" and lift him silenty and place him on the couch and ignore him).

I agree, it looks better in type

Thanks for the replies and the advice.

We do try and involve him in DS2's care - fetching nappies, bottles, choosing clothes, helping 'burp' DS2 (which he loves as I am sure he knows it is a legitimate way of hitting DS2 ) etc - and up until now, he has been very loving towards DS2 - constantly wanting to stroke, kiss and hold him - which we have allowed under supervision of course. We have turned a blind eye to the poking etc as DS1 is a very active boisterous boy and am not sure he could be gentle if he tried!

It really has taken a sudden turn for the worse these last few days - is this normal after 8 weeks? Has reality sunk in that the baby is here to stay?

Am glad to hear your stories of other incidents of this (although not glad it has happened iyswim) as I feel so guilty about it and so sorry for DS2 Fortunately DS1 still goes to nursery 4 days a week so I can get some time with DS2 to give him as much love as I can!

Its a tricky one.

my absolutely wonderful nephew did this to his baby brother...big scratches on his face and everything.

its a really tricky one...i am inclined to think that you need in some way to acknowledge your ds1 feelings...that burningham book 'the baby' is really good.

on one page it says 'sometimes i like the baby' and on another it says 'and sometimes i dont'.it has simple pictures.

try and work out what ds1 is trying to get by his behaiour...does he want to sit on your lap or something?

try giving him special time once a day (simple huh?...sorry for impossible advice) he is still really little...sme of his behaviour he cant really be blamed for (like putting heavy things in his bro cot)

i had a bigger gap and it was still a challenge,even when ds could TELL ME WHAT HE WAS FEELING! (my friend said her daughter said to her 'you dont even look at me any more mummy!'..after her new bro arrived!

i do feel for you.

Forgot to say that both me and DH have made a real effort to spend some quality time with DS1 - taking him to soft play areas while the other one stays at home with the baby, play play-doh/trains with him while the baby is asleep, read books etc - I honestly don't think we could do anymore!

i really like frumpygrumpy's advice...that's what i would like to have said

just seen your pics..they are BEAUTIFUL boys.

I think once the excitement and euphoria of becoming a 'big brother' wears off, elder siblings feel terribly vulnerable. They're too young to appreciate how much care a newborn needs, all they hear and see is the baby taking mummy and daddy away from them. I don't think increasing punishment is the way forward, in fact I think it will make your ds1's resentment of the new baby even worse.

When new babies arrived in our house, dh and I had to very consciously allocate one-on-one time with the elder children. They need to be reassured that you still love them and have time for them. It's hard work, but the best way forward, IME. It took a couple of months but things did settle down and the children all have a great relationship with each other. Obviously, your ds needs to be corrected when his behaviour is unacceptable and I think the naughty step is a good way of doing this, but most of all he needs time and affection. HTH.

frumpys advice is spot on

my DS1 did exactly the same with DS2 (they were 20 months apart) - the more fuss he got the worse he behaviour.

We used stickers/kisses/praise

time out/ telling off/ running to/shouting made he MUCH worse- thought it was either funny or interesting.

Mine get on brilliantly now (though DS2 is the one doing the hitting now payback I guess)

Ok it sounds like you are doing everything and more to help him through this. So I would try not to make an issue of it, keep on with the positive stuff but set clear boundaries about behaviour ie no hitting, scratching.

Also don't leave them alone together so babe doesn't get hurt and you don't feel you are disciplining DS1 all the time.

It will get better. Just shut your eyes and repeat after me: "it's just a phase, it's just a phase..."

I also found 6-8 weeks was a hot point for DS when DD arrived. Soon after that he forgot that she had ever not been here.

But it tore me up inside - someone's hurting my baby but it's my baby! V difficult with all the guilt etc. Good luck.

Also 2.6 is a bugger of an age and you would probably be experiencing some challenging behaviour even if he didn't have a new sibling. He will be so much more reasonable when he is 3

Oh dear - he's just worked out the baby is here to stay .

DD went through similar - she's 2.2 now - he's now six months and after about ten weeks, she suddenly decided that she would run up to him and scream at him every time she found him asleep.

I ended up saying to her 'do you want to be the baby?' and she said 'yes' so for a day we let her be the baby and carried her round and changed her nappy - the potty training dissolved at this point - and for some reason this seemed to help. She realised she couldn't play with her cool toys if she was a baby and she couldn't talk.

She now says 'he's nice but boring' of her brother

You did mention that DS1 goes to nursery 4 days a week. Maybe he is angry that he is away from you for a long time (in his eyes) and he feels pushed out.
Is it all day at nursery or just mornings?
You are doing the right things about getting him involved in helping care for DS2. Have you read some books with him about being a "Big brother" and being loving?
Also, as others have said, you need to make time for DS1 to do things that only he can do as DS2 is too small, like baking or going to a playground or something else he enjoys.
They do grow out of it, eventually

Am so glad it is 'normal' behaviour and I think Skimty has hit the nail on the head that I feel so guilty that my baby is being hurt but it is my other baby doing it!

I never realised going from 1 to 2 would be this hard . I know it will be worth it when they can actually play together but that seems so far off at the moment.

Ripeberry - he is at nursery all day as he has been doing that since he was 7 months old and I went back to work so we wanted to continue it and that is perfectly normal to him. Plus, he absolutely loves going - he has loads of friends, gets to play and we have not had any tears at all when we leave him there since DS2 was born - a cursory wave over his shoulder usually

Also maybe a doll/teddy for him to look after as you are looking after DS2 might help. When our DD1 got one (by chance) it immediately got christened the same name as DD2 and for about the next year DD1 and the doll were inseparable. Everything I did with DD2 she mirrored with her dolly (she was never very interested in helping us with the baby, preferred to go off and do her own thing) and I felt she managed better after that. HTH

thank you!

Meant to say too.......this is the new reality, of you learning how to split yourself. They will not automatically love each other, it needs worked at. And they need shown how to.

I went from one to three and had to work damn hard for my DD1. It was so tough to find any time for her at all. But my best advice is that whilst you want to spend as much time bonding with the baby as possible, the baby doesn't know. Your first child does. Use the time DS1 is at nursery to to skin to skin and cooing and stroking and induldge yourself as well as tending to his needs. Then when DS1 is home, almost act like you are nonplussed about the baby.

It is investing in the future to get this right now. They are both important. At different times. Neither of them should know that last bit.

Beansontoast - meant to say thanks for the compliment about my boys - I, of course, think they are gorgeous

He is probably realising that ds2 is permanent and doesn't like it. How old is ds2?
I have had this experience but not quite so extreme.
I would definately use a time out method. If you shout at him/hit him it reinforces the behaviour through negative attention. Encourage him to give toys to ds2 but don't nag at him to be nice or cuddle him. Just say if you bite you will go where ever you choose to put him. I would put him in the babies travel cot saying 'if you bite ds2 you will go in his cot iyswim- he definately won't want that. Make extra effort to reward nice gestures if they occur, ignore petty things like teasing for now.
Try to get the LO to bed earlier saying that ds2 is the baby and that he can stay up later as he is a big boy- use the time to do something together that he enjoys and is your sole focus. i.e. my dd2 goes to bed at 6.30 and dd1 goes at 7pm we do jigsaws/read/play together until then.
Explain that the baby doesn't understand. If he speaks well try to get him to say what he doesn't like about the baby, ask if he gets upset when the baby needs things etc.
Give him cuddles/attention before he seeks it by paying attention to how much time the LO has taken up and say you are being a good boy waiting for mummy to play or similar, to acknowledge to him that you are noticing him.

My dd2 is 9mths and we are now seeing a light.