SCREAMING - HELP ME PLEASE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[kidbell]

Hi everyone sorry to bother you with my problems but I am at the end of my tether. I have a 7 year old girl who grew up with the normal problems but I now have a 2 year old devil boy. It started about a year ago - these terrible tantrums - he just wont stop screaming and I dont mean crying I mean earpiercing screaming where he can just be standing in the middle of a room and start I feel I have tried everything from understanding him, asking whats wrong, ignoring him where he then wants to lash out at me or anything in his way to smacking him but nothing seems to be working please help.

Dahlia that is a brilliant post. I had two types of tears in my eyes as I read it.
What a great idea.

Ive tried and tested the water thing on my dd, now 5, i havent used it as a threat, ive just had enough after 2 or 3 hours of screaming, quite often in the middle of the night. It certainly has stopped her in her tracks, but then shes started screaming about wanting her clothes/jimjams off! But once shes dry and warm shes forgot all about the fact she was screaming for nothing in the first place and we can continue the day, or get her back to bed with no problems. I certainly think its better all round for me and her to do that than to hit her really hard because ive had enough. Especially if your unfortunate enough to have one of these screamers....i have done the water thing because i cannot take anymore and if i didnt do that than i may have just throttled her instead. Its not funny having a screamer, especially when you never know quite what it started about in the first place.
I remember the first time, when she was about 3, it was summer and it was very hot, so she was getting hotter and hotter and was just standing there SCREAMING and i was trying to get her to have a drink to cool down but she wouldnt have it and i thought id cool her down by dribbling it over her head, i had some thought in my head about this is what they do to cats to shut them up and she went mad about the fact her hair and dress were wet, and it made her louder and worse but i was taking her clothes off while she was still screaming and because the screaming had turned into "I WANT NEW CLOTHES ON" I could then fix that problem...and hey presto sorted.
Since then i think i have done it twice in the night and another one time in the day.....it does work, it gives them something to scream about that you can sort out, it brings them back to reality with a bang. Ive only ever used a mug of water by the way and its just as efficient as a jug for people who dont want to spend the next half hour mopping up!
I do think its sad that these little monsters make us resort to such things...why oh why?!
Oh and good luck everyone with thier dd's and ds's. All i can say is it does get less frequent even if it never stops.

Kidbell - I'm so glad I could maybe help - I really really hope it works for you. You just hang in there girl! I tell you, I don't know what I would do without my Mum sometimes, she always has a solution!! Charliecat - thats why I took her outside, to avoid soaking everything indoors - I do think the larger the quantity of water, the bigger the shock. And like I said, dd never had a tantrum ever again. And I regained my sanity!

Am currently tucking this little gem away, hoping I'll never have to use it - but if it comes to it..............

I so wish I'd thought of this when my daughter was younger!

And I think that you were spot on when you said that you felt that she wanted you to be in charge and bring it to an end. You are quite right. Kids want to know that you will step in and stop things before they get out of hand. They want the re-assurance that there is a point beyond which you will not let them go. Good on you!

Do you think that having strong boundaries, rules and knowing who's in charge adds to the knowledge that someone reeeeeeally cares about them? The phsycology of children is fascinating. Wish people would do more proper research rather than just placing their adult feelings and beliefs onto children and making it up from there. Men might be from Mars, women are conceivably from venus, but children are definately from some other far flung part of the universe!

I also listened to the article on R4 about shouting being as bad as smacking, and I think every time there is a discussion like this, they MISS the point entirely, that with real malice and hate behind an action, it doesn't have to be any one thing in particular for it to have a damaging effect. There's always a difference between an exhasperated mum smacking ,or shouting at, a child for doing something i.e. potentially dangerous, and a right hook or a terrible scream in the face from an abusive parent for nothing other than existing...

oooh - blimey. I went on there

I am still here - honest, but not really wanting to tempt fate, as a weekend away with 7 girlies to Centre Parcs and leaving DH home alone with DS for four days stopped his tantrums in their tracks and he's not really had one since I got back two weeks ago. Please oh please don't let me be speaking too soon.

The water concept is a great idea and just the 'shock' they need to jolt them out of the situation, which I've filed away for future use. (If another trip to Centre Parcs isn't and option!!!)

Thanks Guys

I agree with you snickers, the psychology of it is so interesting. The best discription of the 'needing bounderies' thing I have read was in the Robin Skyner and John Cleese book 'Families and how to survive them'. In it they liken childrens need for firm guidence to being in a pitch black space. If you don't know that there are 4 walls around you, you are far less likely to explore in case you drop off the edge. Kids feel the same way about the world. They want to explore, but they also want to know that you have put in safe guards. If they know that if they go to far you will step in they are far more confident in exploring the areas you do allow them.

They also said, and I love this one, if they act as if they want the riot act read to them, read it to them!

Snickers - I was thinking the same listening to that programme. I agree that shouting can be as potentially damaging as hitting a child but it so depends on the circumstances / tone of voice (exasperation so different from threatening) / and the words used. I think the assumption behind this argument is that shouting indicates a loss of control, which could lead to more out of control behaviour.
Dahlia - I love your suggestion, and will remember it for future use !

Dahlia - I may be late to this message but I have also filed away the water shock treatment. What a great idea. We all need your mums number by the sounds of things.

My ds has just started testing the boundaries but is too young to understand any sort of reasoning so times are challenging at the moment. I'm not ready to use the water treatment just yet. I'm saving that for when he's older and can fully comprehend but I can already see it will be used.

I'm rushing off to by the John Cleese book mentioned in this thread too. I fear I may not be firm enough about certain things. My ds tends to do most things and I say no to very little as I want him to know that when I say no I really mean no. Mind you that's easier said than done as I feel my automatic reaction is to just say no and I think about it afterwards and then let him get on with it.

All in all I had tears in my eyes as well. This thread has been fantastic.

water jug idea - love it!

hi furball Im so glad your ds has calmed down (for now)As you said your scared to tempt fate. Isnt it amazing, what a short break can do i was away the same weekend as you and i felt like a new person when i came home and the kids seemed to appreciate me more too. Hope the peace and quiet continues for you. One day not so far away hopefully ill be tempting fate too.

Thanks Kidbell

The Water Jug idea is FANTASTIC! Thanks - that one is stored for when it's needed..

Wow! I just love this site. Sooo much great advice, lots of laughter and always someone
there to help when you need it.

Everyone - My Mum says Hi! And she is really pleased to think she may have been of some use. The water jug idea actually originated from her younger days, when my one of my brothers was being particularly obnoxious and hysterical at the breakfast table, it went on and on and in the end she said to him 'if you don't stop I will pour the milk over your head'. He didn't believe her. A pint of milk was calmly poured all over his head. Apparently the rest of us just sat and gaped at him and no-one dared say a word!

hi everyone just thought id let you know dd is coming on a treat screaming still happening but his words are getting so much clearer and i do think this has played a big part in his behaviour. Is it just my two or do all brothers and sisters fight infact what a stupid question my brother and i where the worlds worst but dd and ds cant even sit in the same room without one coming out in tears. If its not one thing its another isnt it. Never mind only another 16 years to go and im free( i wish ).

Dahlia I told my dh about the water trick when this discussion first came up.
.
Yesterday while I was out my 2 yo daughter was having a hysterical screaming tantrum and he remembered your advice and he stuck dd in the bath and chucked a jug of water on her. I did not witness any of this but apparently the effect was immediate and miraculous. She stopped in her tracks, calmed right down and came out and had a big cuddle in front of the fire with her dad.
Be sure to tell your mum, and thanks from me and my family.

I wish I had heard of this trick when my children were small - instead I totally lost the rag and smacked them. This sounds so much more effective all round. Does it work on teeagers I wonder....

And husbands....

Doesn't look as though many people have read this one for a few weeks. Am I the only person suffering a 19 month old boy who thinks he is the boss?!

I feel better for having read through all of your comments and just can't wait to pull the water trick out next time I just feel like screaming back.

Meanwhile I just have to pour it all out as I've had a horrific week so far and I feel totally out of control of this small person who I thought was so placid and wonderful. He has turned, or at least can turn at the drop of a hat, into child from hell.

IT happened to me TODAY. The thing I always sneered at when I was a childless singleton...yes, the entire contents of Woolworths was today shaken by my little darling who decided he would demonstrate exactly how much he wanted a ride on the Bob the Builder digger in front of a sneering audience of oh so sympathetic shoppers!

How could this happen to me? I am a calm, loving, reasonable and communicative mother so why has he chosen to humilate me like this. It was the first time in public but these tantrums are getting all to frequent and I feel OUT OF CONTROL!

I tried, calmly to scrape this kicking screaming person off the floor from which he was so desperately hugging. Suffering kicks to my expanding tummy (yes, madly I'm having another!)and stares from elderly shoppers who obviously thought I was some delinquent mother who couldn't control her child. All this only to be slapped in the face by the cheeky chappy!

I have tried so hard keeping my cool but today I just broke down in tears and felt such a failure. Like I'd let us both down. I make excuses for him, he is cutting the majority of his teeth all at once, he is frustrated because he can't say very much...it goes on. But for just how long will this stage last?????

I will try the water method, maybe not in Woolworths though! I wish I coud have offered some advice Kidbell, just sympathy I'm afraid.

Thinking of you fruitbat. I haven't experienced it to this level yet but my ds is certainly on the way and I'm dreading the day it does happen. I felt the same way about screaming children when I was single but it's amazing how you understand so completely as soon as you have children.

I don't suppose it helps much but your ds hasn't chosen to humiliate you - his tantrum is all about his feelings. He cannot possibly begin to imagine how you feel - he just isn't capable of it yet. So his behaviour may be horrible, exhausting and hideous but it's not aimed against you as such, just a result of his own unbearable frustration. I have to admit, I would probably have put him in the ride, but from what you say, that might not have been the only reason for the tantrum. Have you read all the books recommended on this site? I liked The Social Toddler by The Children's Project.

Fruitbat. I really feel for you - my little one did that then grew out of it then back into it and is now mainly really sweet (nearly 3). I wouldn't have put him on the Bob ride - once he starts a tantrum he absolutely doesn't get his own way (slippery slope!) even though it makes my life worse.

I found I just had to walk out the room as the screaming made me so furious I had to calm down for both our sakes. As soon as it starts now I sit him on the hall stairs (he's older than yours) and he knows to calm down and then comes in and we hug lots. It's when we're out that things can escalate. And it's foul, isn't it? It will subside. Repeat: 'it's just a phase' over and over

Just to add to aloha's comment- a lot of tantrums at that age are due to lack of language or speech. Ds1 (4) still has a lot of toddler type tantrums as he can't speak, so he finds it very difficult to make himself undertood. Nothing has him freaking out as much as me not understanding him!

However as his language has come on his tantrums are decreasing. So for example if I can get him to understand that I have understood his request but he's still not getting it then he'll stop screaming.

And as for other people staring. Ignore them. I have rhino hide these days.