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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

Me again....

42 replies

yawningmonster · 15/12/2008 06:24

Need opinions on whether I was too harsh today or not. As many of you know I am struggling with ds' behaviour lately. This morning he punched me in the face when his arm got stuck in his tshirt. I sent him to his room. 15 minutes later he shoved my face backwards with both hands as he wanted a sweater and I had not got one fast enough. I sent to his room. 30 minutes later he slapped me and ran away when his tower of blocks fell over. I sent to his room. I thought at this stage ok this isn't working will get out of house. Wet and rainy so suggested we go to cafe. Ds was keen and we ran into friends there. He body slammed his friend into the wall and was about to bite him when I got to him and took him home. At home he wanted a cookie and I said he could have one after lunch so he kicked me. Sent to his room. an hour later he wet his pants a little as he waited too long to go to the toilet (the deal is supposed to be he changes himself and puts wet clothing in laundry. His foot got stuck putting on his trousers and he demanded I lift his foot and proceed to move his limbs for him to put trousers on while actively resisting me. When I calmly told him he needed to help me to help him he headbutted me. Into room. I thought this still isn't working. Weather had cleared so I suggested we take dog for a walk. Had a good walk and a run around in park. Praised him for walking nicely and playing gently. Returned home and let dog off lead. He called me stupid cow for no real reason I can think of. I said that hurt my feelings and he needed to stop. He told me to shut up and grabbed the lead and tryed to fling it at me. I took to room. I then decided ok, maybe he needs some chill time so let him watch some tv (he can only watch tv after 3pm and loses tv priveledges for biting) I started to make the dinner and he asked for some carrot so I gave him some. I put the rest in the pot and so when he asked for more I said they were cooking and dinner wouldn't be long he threw a book at my head. Took to his room. When he came out I had had enough so I said (this was 6.30pm) that any more hurting with his words or his body and he would go to bed for the night. I made it very clear that meant Daddy, mummy or the dog. Daddy was home by then so he restated the warning. After about 3 minutes he walked over to the dog and slammed her with a ball on her back. Dad picked him up and took him to his room, no stories, no teeth, no jammas, nadda. My problem was he also had no monkey (his transition item) Dh insisted he had to calm down before we gave it to him, I felt he needed it in order to calm down and the early bedtime with no frills was enough of a punishment. He did calm down after about 15mins and fell asleep straight away when given the monkey. So too harsh? or ok?

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Tortington · 15/12/2008 06:36

what a brat - how old?

not harsh enough imo.

Original poster

yawningmonster · 15/12/2008 06:37

4, what would you have done?

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bigTillyMint · 15/12/2008 06:38

I think you are a saint to cope with all that and not lose it with him

Was this a normal day? It just seems that there was a lot of violence.

My DS had a massive tantrum yesterday which finished me off, but his was a ranting and raving one at the top of his voice, deliberately trying to provoke a reaction (which he got) He is 8. I am trying to remember back to when he was younger, and he was a bit more physical then...

How old is he?

Oh and in answer to your question, I think you dealt with it brilliantly He obviously needed to go to bed for a sleep anyway. Does he sleep well?

Tortington · 15/12/2008 06:40

i would have smacked his legs.

Original poster

yawningmonster · 15/12/2008 06:43

He had had 12 hours sleep the night before without waking up. It was a particularly bad day but he loses it most days 2-3 times.

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Original poster

yawningmonster · 15/12/2008 06:43

oh thanks custardo, we don't smack him and in this country even if we thought it would help it would be illegal to do so.

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Tortington · 15/12/2008 06:45

oh ok.

bigTillyMint · 15/12/2008 06:47

He looks like a gorgeous, spirited little terror in your picture - you can see the twinkle in his eyes!....

He is going to test your patience daily (I know this from bitter experience!) Does he go to school (kindy, I guess if you are in NZ) - how is he there? Is he better on days when he goes? He looks like he's ready for the challenge of school!

Original poster

yawningmonster · 15/12/2008 06:52

Tilly he goes to a childminder 2 days a week when I am work, kindy doesn't have the hours to suit work. He was ok around other children but is getting worse and worse at the moment. That photo is 2 years out of date but still haas the same twinkle. I am dreading school tbh as I worry they will expell him

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bigTillyMint · 15/12/2008 06:58

I think you should try to organise some way of getting him to kindy. He needs to be with other children in a more formal, organised atmosphere before he starts school.

DS was truly dreadful when his big sister started school - I think he was jealous and bored. I took him to loads of organised groups, etc on my days at home, but he wanted my attention (aged 4) ALL day long - it was exhausting and I couldn't wait till he started school He was fine at nursery on my work days, and loved it there.

Is there any way you could get him to kindy at least some days a week? He needs to get used to the expectations too.

Original poster

yawningmonster · 15/12/2008 07:03

for a number of reasons kindy really isn't an option for us. We do go to Playcentre on 2 mornings we have together. I would not call it formal or organised but there are a number of children there of his own age. I stay with him so keep a fairly good eye on what is going on so he doesn't get away with too much on the violence front. I try to go out a lot with him as distraction is usually better but starting to struggle to manage him out and about as am 20 weeks pregnant and finding it increasingly difficult to chase after him or heft him into the car if he is losing the plot.

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superloopy · 15/12/2008 07:03

I don't think you are being harsh enough. The punishment isn't working as he keeps being violent towards everyone.

I believe at 4yo he knows right from wrong so you need to really crack down on his violence and adopt a zero tolerance. It is great that you and your DH are working as a united front!

You are removing him to his room which is good. How does he react to being in his room? Is he upset or not bothered? Can you empty his room of everything fun?

He needs to realise that he is going to have a very boring dull little life if he keeps up his current behaviour.

No favourite toys

No TV - sorry this is going to be tough for you!

No treats

Hell I'd even threaten to cancel Christmas!!

I haven't seem any of your other threads so I'm sorry if there is other issues with your DS which affect his behaviour.

How is his diet? Do you think that his behaviour is linked to any particular foods he is eating? Sugar? Additives? Preservatives?

I have a 4yo DD who I know gets ratty when she is tired and hungry. Regular snacks and chill out time helps head off bad behaviour for us.

I am sorry that you are going through this, it is bloody hard work being a parent at the best of times!! Just stay consistent and give yourself lot's of treats!!

Original poster

yawningmonster · 15/12/2008 07:07

Thanks superloopy. We have talked about diet and if things don't improve soon will try the Failsafe diet if you know what that is. He hates being in his room with a passion, he doesn't play when he is in there on a time out but could still empty it if you think that would help. I don't think I could cancel christmas but he is having no treats at the moment.

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bigTillyMint · 15/12/2008 07:49

DS also hates being put in his room, so it is a good place for Time Out/punishment.

Yo do need to be very assertive and consistent with him re rules and rewards/punishments. He will test every boundary again and again. BUT beware of threatening things you cannot/do not want to carry out - like canceling Christmas. You may have to put him in his room 10 times and take his special toy away

bigTillyMint · 15/12/2008 07:50

DS also hates being put in his room, so it is a good place for Time Out/punishment.

Original poster

yawningmonster · 15/12/2008 08:38

I agree tilly, I don't think that is something I could do at all. Do you really think it is ok to take his transition toy away, he is very attached and uses it to calm himself down, I am aware of being assertive and consistent and hopefully achieved that today.

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bigTillyMint · 15/12/2008 08:40

No, don't take his comforter away - it is really important to him to help him calm down. DS has one and uses it to calm down still.

I meant a new / other special toy

Original poster

yawningmonster · 15/12/2008 08:44

thank goodness for that tilly, I don't think I have the backbone to do that to him. No other toy would faze him in the slightest however but anyway will just keep trying the consistent response and hope it will kick in one day.

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leothelioness · 15/12/2008 08:50

sorry I dont have personal experience with such extreme behaviour but I do have a 4 yr old ds and I find that positive reinforcement works well with him could you maybe do a sticker chart or something a big bold one on the fridge and if he behaves ina particularly nice way or help you/ plays nicely with other children he could choose a sticker to add to his chart. It may give him a sense of achievement and help him understand what good behaviour is rather than just what is unaceptable.
BTW I think you cope amazingly well not to lose it with him, well done

Original poster

yawningmonster · 15/12/2008 09:33

Hi Leo, I have tried sticker charts but to be honest they have not really had much of an effect. I always comment on good behaviour, and every night (well not tonight to be honest) but almost every night we tell him at least 3 things we are proud of during the day. If he had had this tonight I would have told him how proud I was that he was able to walk beside me holding the dog, that he was very friendly to me at the park, using a talking voice and how brave he was when he skinned his knee and how well he handled it (ie not blaming me for his hurt and lashing out) I think we are pretty clear about what we expect and what he is doing well.

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snowcrystal · 15/12/2008 10:09

Do you have any idea why he is so angry or losingcontrol?
Is it a recent change ?Do you think it is to do with anxiety?

swanriver · 15/12/2008 10:14

Yawningmonster I think you should disregard the punishment posters. It seems you are being incredibly consistent, affirmative, positive and firm already. Where does all this violence come from? Where did he learn to say shut up? How does he behave at the childminder, does he exhibit none of this violence there and if so why? I know you said he was biting there occasionally. Something is making him feel really really bad, what is it? You are not causing his rages but something is, whether its a perceived sense of injustice or imitating someone's behaviour, or something that is part of his wiring. Some children are wired differently/react incredibly badly to what we percieve as normal mishaps/frustrations. What you said about the sugar on the porridge last week, and it being sprinkled on the 'wrong way'. He minds a lot about little things. He finds them extremely important. Most of what we find normal he finds extremely frustrating and puzzling, like waiting for something (the biscuit or his favourite telly programme). Does he wait happily at the childminder? All the best, my daughter spent a lot of yesterday kicking people so I do understand.

swanriver · 15/12/2008 10:20

P.S. It's lovely that his monkey reassures him and I wouldn't use that as a bargaining tool. He has no issues with it all.

swanriver · 15/12/2008 10:44

I think it's really frightening how much rage small children can have, it sometimes seems as if they are possessed, and we feel we are battling with something our size. But after all they are just little children, and they get really frightened too by their own feelings which seem so disproportinate to their actual power. It is the only power they have, really if you think about it. Maybe leaving him alone with his violent feelings(time out) doesn't help him. He just puts them on hold for next time rather than discharging them to any useful effect. I suppose it's like when we burst into tears and someone says, stop crying or I'll go away until you can stop crying.
Maybe just little precautions could make life easier. Don't let his sugar levels drop. Choose your battles. If he's already in a foul mood, don't make the cookie the final straw. Have a cookie at 11.00 before he gets desperate. He's bound to get cross about toileting problems, he's only four. Don't let wet pants make you cross; before you know it that will be another wind-up.
They are completely testerone crazy at this age, and I think it does make them very 'violent'.

emilyandjohn · 15/12/2008 11:29

Is he coming down with something? My DS is like that whenever he is sickening for something. He hit me with a broom two days ago, and had a temp of 40.8 12 hours later.

It sounds like you are doing a wonderful job providing him with guidance, and staying loving and calm whatever the provocation. One thing that helped a lot with DS (3.4)is giving him some responsibility. For example, I taught him how to carry the plates carefully and I now let him empty the dishwasher himself (although it's hard to watch him tottering around with my best wine glasses). He hasn't smashed anything since.

Hope today is a better day

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