I have a plan (and for once it doesn't involve stickers or penny jars)

[SheSellsSeashellsByTheSeashore]

Because they don't work on dd1. Brute force does. We seem to be having a power struggle at the moment and I have had enough after this morning.

She refused to get dressed again for dancing it didn't work this time. She was told once and then I decided I was far too tired and fed up to be dealing with this again so picked her up half naked off the changing room floor (she has a thing about rolling naked on the floor) put her over my lap with one leg on top of her and pulled her dance gear onto her. When she declared that she wouldn't be dancing today anyway I Picked her up off the floor and shoved into the class closing the door on her.

If she wants to sit in the corner and sulk that is her problem but she is not messing me about anymore. The same tatic is going to be used in the morning re school her uniform will be put on with physical force if necessary and since I can't carry a struggling dd1 and push dd2 dd1 will be strapped into the buggy so all her friends can laugh at her and I will carry dd2. She will have a set amount of time to eat her breakfast or she goes hungry, I am not spending half my da arguing and begging with a five year old to behave.

Thats my plan.

Good luck! Does your head in, doesn't it?
I have found dressing dd1 when she is still sleepy the SECOND she gets out of bed gets the dressing out of the way and has been a breakthrough for us...I suppose, if so minded she could just then loose the clothes, but this hasn't occurred to her.

Yes Seashells
There is a lot to be said for the
'I'm in bloody charge!' approach.

Have yuo thought of sending her in pyjamasa too?

Using reinforcers only works if it is something the child really wants.
She probably couldn't care about stickers and pennies.

Sometimes you do have to get tough when everything else fails.

I've forcibly put DS2 in the car half dressed before and made him dress on the way or go in naked.

My 4 year old (ds) has a sticker chart but it involves earning stickers to access a reinofrcer of his choice.

I am doing my MSc in behaviour principles so get the chance to try it all out at home.

Sounds like a reasonable plan. Good luck, sometimes they just need to know that you mean bussiness and that somethings are non negotiable. Let us know how it goes!

Is this a wind up or are you being serious? How can you possibly treat a child like that? I'm really horrified! I have to admit I've done that once or twice when I've been at the end of my tether, but I've instantly regretted it. There's no way I could ever plan to treat my children that way. How on earth could I expect my children to respect me if I don't respect them?

"How can you possibly treat a child like that?"

Quite easily if they are that sort of child. She hasn't advocated beating her child into submission FFS, she just forcibly dressed them.
It's got nothing to do with not respecting the child.

god if i didn't forcible dress my DS he'd be naked half the time. and we'd never leave the house. Now THAT'S cruel.

Got to be done on occasion with some children, IME/O. Hopefully you won't have to very often before she gets the message - if I move to pick DS up and cart him somewhere because he refuses to go of his own accord then he moves - because he knows I will do it. I have stripped him and shoved him in the bath once when he would not undress himself. It only took once....

Sorry, but I think you're all horrible, using your better strength and size to force a child to do something. And totally counterproductive besides. What's going to happen when they're too strong for you to be so brutal?

linedlass would it better if I didn't send her to school? Or if she only went the fancy took her? DD is v v stubborn. I have tried asking nicely, I have tried begging, I have tried sticker charts and monetary rewards, I have tried removing her favourite toys, I have tried time outs (that just makes us later) and nothing works. If she decides she is not going to school/wearing those tights then it takes a hell of a lot to perseude her otherwise. I have been driven to tears on more than one occassion even that didn't work. She is 5 ffs I am the one in charge not her and it's about time she realised that.

And as for how it went this morning omfg! We were ON TIME we were actually on time for school!!! DD1 ended up outside with no tights and shoes on after she removed them because they were 'the wrong dark grey tights' and she refused to put them back on untill I went to find her other dark grey tights (I would have actually done this in the past just to get her to school). This time she was told calmly "Once me and dd2 are ready we are leaving the house. If your tights and shoes aren't back on you will have to finish getting dressed outside" The wrong dark grey tights must have been more appealing when she realised how cold it was as she pulled them on quite quickly.

And we were on time!! Did I mention that we were on time?

Moondog that is what her sticker chart is for she 'saves' stickers to 'trade in' for a present of her choice the value of which is determined by how many stickers she chooses to save. i.e. if she save just one weeks worth she can have some crayons etc but a months worth might be swapped for a dvd/game. We are still carrying on with the cahrts. She has two one for doing her home work and one for getting dressed without a fuss. If she doesn't want to do it for a sticker she will be made to get dressed one way or the other.

couple weeks ago woman in news cycling down street w. dd (about 2) stark naked.

Child refused to get dressed or allow mother to dress her.

Mum didn't want to violate her rights by forcing her. (mum lawyer).

She is now being charged with neglect & investigated.

Small children often not rational or reasonable. Parents have a duty. Sometimes it tough. Parents need to be in control but in loving, kind but firm way. Child needs to understand parental authority.

i believe that parenting is (in some part) about setting your child on the right road to becoming a fully functioning adult and hopefully a positive cycle is maintained with their children. i am very friendly with my children but i'm not their friend (of course i say i am) i'm their parent and if they need a firm line so be it. i would not be doing them any favours by letting them set the agenda and some things are not open for negotiation (well certainly not at 4 but i'm not going to be unreasonable)

i think a reasonable request should be met with a reasonable response (ie doing it!!)

i regularly go out of my way for my children so its give and take

stick to your guns mums and dads!

Lindenlass if you have DC who can always be won over by persuasion / positive reinforcement / negotiation, then that is great.

If on the other hand you have a child who will not always respond to these things, then sometimes (occasionally) you have to force the issue.

As for 'What's going to happen when they're too strong for you to be so brutal?' - well by then they will have a better understanding of the consequences - if DS doesn't get up/dressed when he is 12 then he will miss the bus to school and he will face the consequences because I won't bail him out with his teachers. Right now I cannot leave him in the house alone, so we have to leave approximately on time and he has to be appropriately dressed.

Similarly - if DD (2.2) refuses to get into her car seat and instead hurls herself across the car screaming - WWYD, exactly, which doesn't involve "using your better strength and size to force a child to do something"

Lindenlass, my ds fights and struggles every nappy change, does that mean I should leave him sat in his own shit?? No of course not.. so I wrestle with him and 'force' him to be clean. How brutal of me.

Walking out of the room and doing something else often gets my 2.5 yoto get dressed. ThoughI have done/do the 'well,are you going to doit or am I?' too. Not nasty though.

LOL @ "brutal". Really, you need to get some perspective here.

Oh god if I left the room and left her to it nothing would get done. She is very good at distracting herself and then when you walk back into the room you get "oops what was I meant to be doing mummy?" and thats the best to hear at other times its "Do you want to see my dance I have just made up?" while she is nekkid.

Also lol @ brutal.

Ha, yes my dd does that too but not whenI have left the room going 'aaaaggggh'.(I was as surprised as you to see her actually wearing her pantswhen i came back in having calmed down a bit. Then you can 'start again with the fun distraction,positive malarkey)

Would she get dressed before she can have breakfast? My ds is always starving in the mornings but terribly slow at getting dressed, hence the order we do it in! Also he has developed a fear of being upstairs on his own so he gets dressed really quickly if we all leavce him up there. Is that cruel? I don't know, but it gets us to school on time. And putting out the clothes the night before helps too, so he can get his stubborn little head around accepting what he's going to wear tomorrow, like it or not. Honestly, if you haven;t had a child like this you cannot understand.

I think with these stubborn children (I have a couple of them) you have to find their "thing", i.e. something that motivates them to cooperate. That's not to say i haven;t used brute force on occasion though....

Oh yes, the old using the knee to get them in the buggy trick! I don't see any alternative really. Linden must have those model type of children straight from the pages of a magazine , while the rest of us meanies wrestle and kneel on our children just to get out the house!

She does get dressed before breakfast but she is not a big eater and is happy enough going without breakfast. Her clothes are also left out the night before. I have honestly tried everything I can possibly think of but I am open to sugestions.