Please help me understand the way my friend handles her DD (fussy eater)

[Weegle]

Sorry this is so long but I've tried to give as much relevant info as possible, hope someone can help - wasn't sure where to post as it's food/relationships & behaviour!

My friend's DD is 4 years old and she admits she is a fussy eater. However she will eat all the usual sweets/crisps. Whenever they come over I try to provide a meal that can be picked at and broken into component parts. It's never acceptable and my friend always gets out or asks me for something different, which also invariably is not eaten. Later on we would normally have a sweet something and her DD will tuck in to this with gusto, normally having 3-4 of something. All fine so far, none of my business really... but she keeps asking me about it and obviously not liking what I say. DS eats well - through a combination of luck and the fact he has no other options he'll pretty much eat if he's hungry, if he doesn't eat something I just take it away no comment. This works for us - he'll have hungry weeks/not such hungry weeks and we just ride with it. On Saturday we had a party here and so I did a huge buffet spread - there was a MASSIVE choice of food. It was all a little rushed as we were going out to fireworks and my friend asked DH if she could get a slice of bread for her DD. DH said yes, and started getting it for her. Then she said "could I just raid your fridge for some jam or chocolate spread?" - DH, not known for tact said "well really I think if nothing out there (on the buffet) is good enough she shouldn't be having chocolate spread offered, DW is trying to cook in here". Great, DH big mouth . Slight disagreement ensues between the two of them (DH pointing out variety already on offer, and also it's about to be followed with naughty puds which he knew the little girl would eat and friend saying she's worried DD will go hungry and she'd starve herself) and friend puts me on the spot saying "what do you think?". I really wasn't concentrating (was trying to get things in/out of oven) and said "well if it was DS I wouldn't offer him chocolate spread or jam". She went off in a huff . And it's been worrying me since. About a week previously on the phone she told me that her DD has been suffering loads with mouth ulcers and the GP had told her she thought it was diet related, she asked my opinion on that too. When I said "I get ulcers when I eat too many sweet things" she said "well it's all she'll eat". I don't want to get involved, I don't really want to give my opinion on it but what am I supposed to do when she asks me? I know from on here people really reach their wits end with fussy eaters but I do genuinely believe in this circumstance a lot of it has been exacerbated by my friend (who I should also point out is extremely fussy) but I love her dearly and would never want to upset her but she keeps on and on drawing me in to it. Can anyone tell me what I should be saying to preserve the friendship whilst maintaining my approach with DS. She really is a good friend and I would hate for this to come between us (worried it already has), and whether I should mention Saturday again? I should probably also point out that she has already had a disagreement with a mutual friend over the exact same issue. Advice please?

If your friend asks for your opinion again tell her that you can't really relate to what she is going through and don't think you are best person to give advice, if she pushes then tell her what you think!
If her DC is such a fussy eater why doesn't she just feed her before she comes over or bring her own food. It's impossible to cater for everyones taste so don't feel bad.

I had a fussy eater and he ended up fixated on pasta, baked beans and carrot sticks. He didn't fixate on crisps and chocolate cos I never ever let those be an option.. He would go days without eating.
But he's now a strapping 15 year old.

If her DD isn't skinny then she's clearly in no danger of starving herself.

I'd use a star chart and general "you can have this or this" choices, and get rid of all the jam and chocolate spread in the house. If it comes up in the conversation again tell her that if she doesn't really want your honest opinion then she should stop asking for it! However, if she actually does want help and support to make changes to her DD's eating habits then she should feel free to ask.

It's a tricky one, but in all honesty no child should be allowed 3 or 4 servings of pudding if they have not eaten any of the main course. At least my two wouldn't be!!

MadameCastafiore - that's exactly why I have posted - to try and work out how to handle this as I'm obviously getting it wrong from friends point of view. But SHE is asking the questions... and how I'm answering them is how I'm coming unstuck. I was actually a fussy eater as a child but it applied to all things, not just healthy things - my parents were equally pleased when I tried a toffee as to when I tried a piece of tomato!

Weegle - re the 'starving' thing. It's just another cog in the whole thing - of course the child wont starve but, in my experience the eating/non eating was such a stress that at times, as long as something was being eaten then at that moment i could stop feeling so utterly useless.
Real problem eating ends up sending you a bit doolally - all rational thought goes out the window and inevatably you end up making it worse, but your so deep in the problem you stop seeing it all in perspective.
Its a really sad situation and of course it makes it look all the more ridiculous to someone outside looking in.

Custardo - I'mnot sure if your comment was aimed at me? I never made any comment about your post.

Astropup - that's great, i
I shall try that.

Miyazaki - I don't know, I don't know if I would ask her opinion? I would probably seek out other friends with problem eaters and speak to them?

I do think you would not be unreasonable to suggest that your friend feeds her dd before she comes to yours, apart from everything else, you shouldn't have to find ways around the eating issue and tbh, i imagine its more stressful for your frioend and her dd than if she just ate at home.

I think you are a bit stuck between a rock and a hard place. My DS is a fussy eater to an extent. However if at a buffet with loads on offer - or even just out generally - he would not be offered a treat if he wouldn't eat what was there. He would be offered plain bread and butter. Or an apple.

Is the DD healthy generally other than the mouth ulcers? Does she get colds and things more than other children? I give DS a multivitamin syrup - partly as insurance and also because sometimes giving a 'tonic' as it used to be called does give an appetite so that might help.

I think if I were you I would try to understand that your friend feels bad because of the situation but can't get herself out easily. I would ask if she wants to talk about and try and come up with some strategies/ideas to help her DD eat more foods. One idea would obv be to offer something very plain and not a treat if nothing else is acceptable to the DD.

I would agree that some children are just good eaters and others just aren't. And until you have one of the latter it is hard to understand.

OK, this has all been very insightful - from both sides of the debate. If it's brought up again I shall use AstroPup's suggestion and take it from there.

DS is only 2.5 so a little young to understand the different rules in different houses - the girls having something different hasn't yet been a problem as DS just tucks in and then gets one of the naughty thing. Occasionally he will tantrum over having more but I just say no. One other little girl came in to kitchen on Saturday (after the choc spread sandwich went out, DH didn't withold it!) asking for choc spread but her mum was there and said no! but we then took out a plate laden with chocolate and naughty things!

oh yes previously (a while ago) I suggested she asked the HV or GP whether she should give a vitamin tablet/tonic. I don't know whether she did or not. The little girl has LOADS of colds, but probably only slightly more than my DS. But she really suffers with them and can't shake them, but it's complicated with glue ear etc which she's having grommits for soon.

I have a normal eated (aged 3) ie someotimes picky, sometimes not but overall Ok.

I have friends who have picky eaters. if ever they ask me - I just say - I'm really the wrong person to talk to about this as DS eats reasonably well. Then smile and don't comment.

Think it may be worth saying that she shoudl feed her at home if it is a nuisance. Or just give her a plate of bread and butter.

I wouldn't give a child something DS isn't allwoed in our house (but then I wouldn't have it in the hosue so not really relevant). But do expect him to go along with the "rules" of whatever hosue we're eating in.

I don't think your dh was rude at all. You'd prepared a buffet and essentially what your friend was saying was that none of that was good enough for your child so could she have something else. She is the one who is rude.

As a child I was that fussy eater. I lived on sugar puffs and then dry shreddies. and my mum, on dr's advice, pandered to this pickyness. I ate so little in fact that I had to be given appetite stimulants to make me hungry. But never was I made to try something, or encouraged to improve my eating habbits. I couldn't bear to eat fruit and veg - for me it was a textural thing, I can't stand the textures of most fruit or veg in my mouth - it made me feel sick and it still does.

But I do think that if I'd been better encouraged as a child then I wouldn't be so particular about fruit and veg now.

I think the issue with food is that it is such an emotive thing. If our children don't eat then we fear that they will starve. As a rule, they won't, (there are obviously exceptions to every rule) but as parents it's incredibly difficult to test out that theory, so it's easier to settle for the path of least resistance and give in to their demands for sweets and chocolate if we know that's what they'll eat.

Well I had/have a problem eater, he had a selection of 5 things he would eat but somtimes refused even those.

He was on the 5th centile for weight (50th for height), has a metabolic disorder similar to diabetes(amongst other SN inc CP which means he struggles to eat certain textures.) and I did not ever resort to giving him treats as an alternative to proper food. He was sometimes offered alternatives, but plain bread and butter and as repertoire expanded raisins, banana.

This week he has chosen to eat an apple for the first time he is 4.2, we were walking round an orchard all picking them and muching them from the trees and he joined in.

I'm happy to say that now he is on the 75th centile and will eat many things, but also he will try most things that go on his plate - maybe not the first time sometimes not even the 20th time, but eventually.

I never make a big fuss about eating/not eating or it can become a power play - I learnt this from my DD who after a prolonged illness from 9-14 months was unable to eat without vomiting, but then used my stress/desperation to manipulate me into feeding her nothing but raisins and fruit fromage frais for months!

And my point was...well, I'm not sure...

But ime pandering can enable a picky eater to remain picky but being too inflexable can cause power struggles or bigger issues.

Perhaps there is a midway of offering an alternative eg bread and butter, but not the choc spread as your DH suggested.

I do think it comes down to middle ground.

An alternative should never be more exciting than the original offering. Although how you can get less exciting than dry shreddies I'm not quite sure.

I offer the dry shreddies too wannaBe!

Yes, Wannabe. That was an odd thing to choose, sugar puffs yes, but dry shreddies - yuck!

My DD went through a stage of eating dry weetabix, I just let her - all part of the powerplay. It didn't last long which I fear it would have done if I'd made a big fuss about her having milk.

MS & WannaBE - I think that was what DH is his not very well put, and extremely blunt way, was trying to say. By all means take the bread and butter but what's with the choc spread? I think he was annoyed on my behalf that he had seen me all day (ill) struggling to prepare all this food and it was then being passed over in favour of a choc spread sarnie! I can't, obviously begin to imagine how stressful it is to have a child who day after day refuses to eat. But I would like to think I would notice if they remarkably only eat junk food, because as someone else has said (and in my own childhood experience) that's not just fussy and it's a different thing. But that's not really the point - the point is how I handle her questions and thanks to everyone I feel better euipped to do that now.

I can beat your DH in the not known for tact...

My DH has frogged marched one of our friends daughters away from the table and made her sit on the stairs while we ate our tea, 'cause she was being a nightmare

Luckily her parents were okay with it.

She did come back to the dinner table and ate her whole dinner

dashboardconfessionals - I don't feel "smug" or "happy" that my friend has this problem, and it's not nice to be implied that I do. And the reason she asked is because our kitchen is the size of a postage stamp and was at that point in a state of complete chaos with me getting things in/out of the oven. She needed to be passed the bread and a knife. She didn't know where we kept the jam/spread. Normally she's in there helping herself/helping me but it wasn't quite normal circumstances being a) a party and b) being in a rush to get out. Anyway, out of politeness I would ask in my friend's kitchen if roles were reversed. And I don't begrudge her the food - as I've said I frequently try to accommodate it - I begrudge being asked for advice and getting it in the neck when I get it wrong and was asking for advice on how to give advice without offending.

I would say to her (if she asked for advice) that "it's really hard for you to know what to do in her situation as your DS is not a fussy eater. You don't know whether that is just how he is or if it's your attitude/approach to food and that your would do x and y with DS, but that obviously she knows her daughter best".

Your DH may have been blunt but he was right.

If the child eats bread and butter with jam, she clearly likes bread and butter and if she is so hungry that she can't wait half an hour for tea she is hungry enough to eat bread and butter by themselves. There is a huge difference between trying to force children to eat things they do not like and pandering to a longing for chocolate and jam. It may not work first time but if you are persistent this will work with the vast majority of children.

I have a friend whose child has eating problems. Some, no doubt, he would have had anyway but she has made them far, far worse by constantly giving in. He was happily eating toast at my house and at a friend's and she told us to stop giving it to him as it wasn't what it chose! It was then that I pointed out that her son's crisp habit had caused a two hour tantrum for my son when he wouldn't share them and I refused to go to the shop and buy him some.

My other friends and I have been incredibly supportive over the past four years but I can't see how it is being a good friend to see someone you care for do something that could damage their child and causes them stress. Sometimes you have to push your children through their comfort zone.

And yes, I do have a fussy eater, but as soon as he was two and I knew he could understand, I started very gently pushing the boundaries. I have a long way to go and I would never force him to eat but it is worth it for his long term health.