ok so do all or any of the behaviour management "techniques" actually work for your kids?

[yawningmonster]

This is generally how things go for us

1. Give simple choices eg: Ds do you want yellow shirt or blue shirt?

Ds response 1: La la la la la Ds response 2: Go away

1. Give natural consequences eg: Ds if you use that toy to hit me I will take it away from you.

Ds response 1: Don't say that, hits me again Ds response 2: Massive tantrum that ends in time to chill (simple easy things ALWAYS ALWAYS escalate for ds)

1. Positive attention: I like the way you are putting your building together

Ds response 1. Go away Ds response 2. Don't say anything Ds response 3. Immediately stops playing and either starts acting up or nagging me

1. Talking so kids listen eg: It must be really hard when I say no to having that lolly

Ds response 1. Escalates massive tantrum to hitting us and earning time out Ds response 2. Don't talk to me Ds response 3. I want the lolly, lolly, lolly, lolly, lolly, lolly, lolly. I want the lolly now, now, now, now, now, now. Give it to me, Give it to me, Give it to me (you get the picture)

1. Time out number of minutes per age, if we open door after 4 minutes we will be hurt guarenteed. Usually go to door and ask if he has calmed down but usually takes at least an hour sometimes more
2. Pick your battles

Um actually it is usually ds who picks them over almost anything at anytime a

1. Ignore the bad

Ds response . Escalates into hurting

1. Making it their problem eg "Ds if you don't get dressed we will miss playgroup"

Ok this just doesn't work on so many levels, first he doesn't really seem to care. Next he spends the time he would have been at playgroup either nagging me to entertain him or tantrumming when I won't which is soooo much more punishment for me than it is for him. Anyone else got a child like this or if not what works and what am I doing so, so, so wrong?

I know it's long and I know it's boring but humour me please.

.

Are they close in age? I find it more difficult with 2 DCs-they can bring you down to their level!

1. If they are not taking simple choices don't give them one e.g. give them a yellow shirt.

1. If you have threatened to take away the toy-take it immediately they hit you again with it. Put it out of reach and go out of the room (avoids further argument)

1. They probably sense your tactics! Try and find something where you really mean it!

4.I know this in the 'in' thing but as a adult I hate it! If I get annoyed and someone says 'I understand what you are saying' it means that they are not going to do anything about it!
The response to the lolly is 'if you know it must be hard then give me the lolly!

5.Time out -you have to ignore. You can usually tell if they have calmed down without asking. It tends to take more time than their age.

6.Don't engage in conversation if the battle is silly. Go in another room and don't get drawn into making a response.

1. You have to leave the room if you can't ignore. It is a good idea to ignore it. Make sure that you give plenty of attention when being good.

8.Don't make it their problem unless you are willing to make it a consequence i.e. if you don't intend to be late don't say it. If you do say it carry it through.

Children sense things from what you don't say. I never had trouble with things I was adamant about but I did have problems if I wasn't too bothered.

thanks for replying I am actually only talking about one child but he varies his response. I feel I have done all the things you say and still no difference.

how long are u sticking at the techniques? there is a minimum amount of time each techniques takes to work.

also the hitting, he does it cos u react, if u ignore him he hits you, because it gets a angry responce. angry is better than none with children.

but above all remember kids are HARD, and that it will get bettter. hang on in there!

how long are u sticking at the techniques? there is a minimum amount of time each techniques takes to work.

also the hitting, he does it cos u react, if u ignore him he hits you, because it gets a angry responce. angry is better than none with children.

but above all remember kids are HARD, and that it will get bettter. hang on in there!

actually we don't get angry when he hits we simply say that we don't hit in our family and that if he continues he will need to be in another room until he is ready to stop. As to sticking to the techniques, these are the ones I have been using/trying since he was about 2 and he is now 4 so have stuck at them a while, they just don't work for him and I haven't found any that do. I was just wondering if other people find that too or if maybe I am doing something wrong with the techneques. We try to be very clear with our expectations and have simple rules.

nothing ever worked for dd1 I'm afarid. I tried everything for 14 odd years. Then she ran away and now lives with in-laws who are strict!
Not saying your ds will run off, there were other circumstances.

God, how I wish I had the answers! I honestly don't think there is one fail-safe method of trying to "manage" children- what worked for dd1 has absolutely no effect on dd2! For me, it is very much trial and error- when I find something that seems to have any effect I keep doing it!

But mine are 4 and 3 (and 1, but he doesn't count yet as he's too wee to answer back!) and I think it IS a difficult age in a lot of ways- I know dd's behaviour has become less predictable since she started school, and it's been a big adjustment for dd2 too. Is your son going through this kind of thing? Is this behaviour new for him? I seem to live my life trying to convince myself that "this is just a phase"- will probably still be doing it when they are 25!

no behaviour is not new. Needmorecoffee that is what I worry about that nothing will ever work for him and yet he has another side that is so wonderful and full of potential, I just don't seem to be able to nourish this side and support it, the 'hard' stuff is always on top of it so much that people can't see that he can be lovely. Thanks joolyjoolyjoo you seem to have at least one child the same age and be feeling much the same as me. That is what I need, constant reassurance that we are not in our own little bubble here.

like i said, hang on in there!

I had a difficult four year old too. I remember how hard it was.

You are giving too much leeway IMO. If ds hits you with a toy take the toy away and straight into timeout. I don't give second chances with hitting, he knows it is wrong.

From what you are saying it sounds as though your boundaries need firming up as he is testing them constantly. If his lolly chanting is annoying you then you say zip it or time out. If he hits you after 4 mins time out then he goes back in (this is a second time out for a second offense). If this takes an hour then so be it. Remember not to mention the naughty behaviour after the sanction, he has done his time and you must let it go even if you are still angry. You are going to have to be tougher and more persistant than a four year old, but it pays off.

You need some positives in your plan too. Find something he likes (matchbox cars, chocolate buttons, shiny stones anything at all that you can collect more than one of and that are easy to carry). Find five behaviours a day that you like and reward them. It may be tricky at first and you need to keep moving the goal posts but it does work.

Don't be defeatist. There is not a four year old on the planet who is untrainable. People train lions so they can put their heads in their mouths you know.

i agree pigleto, thats what it sounded like to me.

I think it feels quite depressing sometimes- I want to have fun with the kids, but I feel some days that I am constantly telling them off/ sending them away!! But I hope that by giving firm boundaries just now, I can relax a bit when they are older (that's my hope, so please don't anyone disabuse me of that idea just yet!!!)

nope. tried them all and came up with pretty much the same responses you've had. and yes have been consistent with them not mixed and matched throughout the day.
DD is 10 now and still a PITA. the only only only thiing that has ver worked to pull her out of tantrums, destruction, hitting, biting, refusing etc is to utterly ignor her. difficult when she is biting your face or you have to get somewhere but no eye contact and no talking at all. she tends to get over it quicker with no response at all.

I've cared for over 150 children, probably nearer 200 by now, over the past 20 years and from my experience there is no one method which will work with every child. Even within the same family, one method may not work with all the children. Things need to be child specific... some will respond to 1-2-3, others will hate you ignoring them... while for others time-out can work.
I find things work best when used infrequently. Ignore minor things, use whatever method you find works with that particular child when the situation is more major.
With siblings who fight/bicker, do not assume that one child is right, one wrong. Discipline both of them. If they fight over a toy, remove the toy - as it is very hard to know which child actually had it first.
Consistency I find is vital - if you tell a child that x will happen if they do something, then x has to happen if they do it.
Agree with AbbeyA, no conversations. Once you have made the decision to take action, don't discuss it with the child... just do it. If necessary it can be discussed later, should the child feel it necessary. You have told them what will happen, they ignored you, thus there is the consequence.

4 is hard work. DS is 5 now and I've only just recovered and DD will be four in a months time! Aargh.

'How to talk' works for us most of the time but not if DCs are tired.

But what worked best for me is realising that it doesn't matter if I don't manage to make them comply and that by modelling the right behaviour they'll get there in the long run.

naughty corner, naughty, corner naughty corner. Works for me with the simple stuff. We use it in shops as well any corner will do. And why, oh why is saying 'no' such a dirty word. I agree with Nannynick,No conversation discuss later when the kid has calmed down and only one or two sentences other wise in the kids head it sounds like blah,blah,blah. My mum had my hearing tested because I never listened to her. PMSL just thinking about it again.

well i do conversations and try not to say no, and that works for us. i guess it depends on the child.

i'd say you're trying too many things so your child isn't getting a consistent message.

Sounds like my ds (unsurprisingly also 4yo).

This is what I do

1. Choices - don't give him choice, ds doesn't care and goes for the option you haven't offered and screams the place down. I don't bother with them.

2. hitting - if he hits me I walk out the room. IF he follows I take said toy and put on a high shelf. If necessary I will lock myself in bathroom. I don't say anything beyond 'don't hit me'

3)Don't praise if they don't like it. I find ds gets upset if he is in the middle of doing something and I interrupt. Save praise for if they show you the item when they have finished or if you are doing an activity together. Ds responds better to 'That looks interesting why don't you tell me about it', than 'oh you're doing that well' or similar. Taking an interest is better to him than just praising what he is doing.

4)Has never really worked. I tend to say no and then turn around and refuse to discuss the subject. If he can provide me with a good reason as to why to have something then he can have it. But if he screams, shouts, etc or I don't agree with the reason I am not discussing it till he is calm and then only briefly.

5. Time out tends to turn into 3 hours of hysterical screaming. I don't bother with it. I walk away instead.

6)Pick your battles - you can choose the ones where you agree to let him do what he wants and the ones where you don't agree.

7)Ignore - only works if you sucessfully remove yourself from the situation.

8. ds only cares about what is happening now, rather than something spectacular that will happen in future. Concentrate on the now.

I find for certain battles e.g. getting dressed, the only way to ensure it happens is to shut us both in the bedroom and stay there until he gives in.

Shouting does nothing except making sure he repeats the behaviour again, as do threats etc. E.g. saying 'don't touch that' will ensure he does touch whatever it is. Shouting makes no difference except in that he will become angrier.

It is exhausting and the only way I can get through is to remain calm. WHich is why I need time out otherwise I end up screaming like a fish wife.

Yawningmonster, what I like from the 'how to talk' book is the bit where you ask your child to find their own solutions to a problem.

It certainly resolved the getting dressed issue for us.

For a while DS decided he would pretend to be a robot while doing it. It worked for him.

What is it with 4 year olds?

Mine is a right terror atm - I don't remember dd being like this though.

Nannynick is right in that whatever the method it won't work with every DC. You have to go with what suits your personality and the personality of your DC.
For example I had a sure fire way of getting DS1 out of a tantrum but it was an absolute disaster with DS2!
I personally can't stand the empathy approach. Anyone saying 'I understand that you are upset because xxxx' and I want to say 'in that case ** well listen to me and do something about it'! Therefore I would never use it. It even grates when I hear others use it.
I would suggest working out the triggers for problems and trying to avoid them.
I go a lot for ignoring at the time and talking, and listening, once they have calmed down.

Just looked at your DS on your profile - he is gorgeous and looks like a bundle of energy, like my DS!

I have just read "raising your spirited child" MS Kurcinka. It absoluteley describes my DS. It hasn't got any quick answers, but gives an insight into how they think and what you can do to avoid conflicts.

My DS was (at times!) truly awful at 4, but is slowly coming through not he is 7. There is no quick fix, just dogged determination (I think I was a spirited child too!) to stick to my guns and try not to let him press my buttons all the time!

I never give choices to much trouble, also I lurve the dog whisperer, his techniques work brilliantly on my dd, honestly, apart from pinning them to the floor and the very doggy stuff!

But seriously, start as you mean to go on, if you dont be firm now once they get older you are in trouble, I believe in being strong but fair, and also once I say no I have never in 13 years ever changed my mind and said yes. Even my 2.5 yr old knows that, no kickin off just, ok she said no.

And the getting dressed thing, take him in in pjs, he will soon cotton on.

Good luck.