battleground with 3yo - HELP!

[mamatilly]

Darling boy, 3yrs old, says NO to everything..

Putting coat on takes endless threats and ultimatums, ditto getting dressed, putting on pajamas, washing hands, holding hands, drinking juice, getting out of bath etc etc etc

i have tried asking him to do good listening and be kind and that i just want to be his friend... but it all ends up with threats and ultimatums and counting to three or putting him outside the room..

Any ideas mumsnetters????

xxx

Well TBH you are NOT his friend, you are his MUM, and pleases really don't wash with 3 year olds at all.. My DS is also 3. We usually get round strops (or cut them short) with a combination of threats, of letting him do the thing himself (which is usually the issue) or with the naughtly corner. Or chocolate bribes if I utterly utterly need to get out of the house right this minute. But basically what seems to work best is showing him that I am boss, and not taking any nonsense...Good luck, i am hoping this phase stops real soon too, it is soo tiring..

will watch this with interest as my DS has just turned 3 & is exactly the same. I end up resorting to threats & ultimatums too as nothing else seems to work.

DS is a three-nager tomorrow and is just starting this sort of behaviour after a rather pleasant 'terrible twos'.
He had about a 20 minute tantrum the other day about putting pyjamas on. Thing i, when he's calmed down he is such a sweet, lovely, happy little boy and I am still a stressed, wound up mummy

1st thing - allow as much time as you can for these situations.

For a week I had to allow ds 2 hours to get dressed. I sat in his room with my back against the door, and ignored all the 'no', 'I don't want to' and 'screaming', I didn't get drawn into his arguments, and refused to engage. I'd tell him what I wanted to do and wait for him to do it. Even if that did take a long long long time and I did have to get up stupidly early for a week.

He's never been so bad since.

Similar thing for everything else. If he has to do it, he has to do it however long it takes. If he can provide me with a good enough reason as to why not to do it - i.e. can prove to me he has a better idea, then he doesn't have to.

But don't get drawn into arguing with him, don't answer him back, play the stuck record (I want you to put your clothes on and we will stay here until you do) - but I tend to do maximum of 3 repeats and then stop talking.

Pick your battles - if it's something like putting on coat, then let him go without and get cold.

Don't let them wind you up if you can help it - e.g. allow plenty of time to do these things.

For getting out of the bath. If you can let the water out and lift them out. If he is getting too strong then you empty out the water, put the toys out of reach and all other 'fun things' and then carry on doing something else, not paying attention (e.g. clean the bathroom).

For something like refusing to hold hands, I would get a set of reins and put those on. If he can hold hands he doesn't have them, if he won't he gets them put on.

Takes a lot of time though to start.

But never argue/reason with a 3yo they have a habit of winning (or is that just mine).

the providing a valid reason has only worked recently though (he's just turned 4) and it has to be one I agree with e.g 'I don't want to get dressed cos we're not going out and I will if I start to get cold' is a valid reason. Screaming 'I don't want to' isn't.

I agree with Armadillo, definitely pick your battles. Two things worked with my v.stubborn opinionated boy. 1- turn it into a game. I was amazed (still am) how much he picks up on "i bet I can do x before you do y" (have to do this as soon as you sniff an oncoming battle, definitely doesn't work if he's already into full scale tantrum...
2- walk away. Don't get cross, say you'll come back when he does whatever it is or apologises, or whatever. First few times it takes a while, but if you don't engage with the rage, it works and the time it takes gets less and less. If he follows you, just quietly pick him up and put him back wherever he was. Obviously you have to mean it and stick to it. I agree with Armadillo about never arguing with them, but only up to a point. If you wait until you can have a quiet chat, then talk to them and say you doing x makes me cross, what can we do about it? Well they seem to quite like that. Never at the time though, for that way madness lies..

I don't have any solutions really but I think it improves slowly. We had a phase around 3yrs that lasted a good couple of months where every day felt like a fight. Every single thing we did each day in fact, from putting on coats to going out on nice trips to the farm (I DON'T WANT TO GO!!!! etc). I felt like I was always having to shout at him and physically shift him about to get him to do what I needed him to.

He's only 3.5 now and we have whole weeks where we don't need to talk about the naughty step let alone use it. He can still be a total nightmare and I'm waiting for the next phase of difficult behaviour to kick off but that one seems to have faded now. Good luck

I try to give a choice of two options for just about every situation possible. That generally defuses the situation but you have to do it consistently even when you'd rather not/are running out of time.

Allowing lots of time helps most things but some days I have to get us out the door for work and that has to planned carefully. I can't take 2 hours to get her dressed - I just couldn't face getting up that early and I'm quite sure she could go over the 2 hours. I help her get dressed to her favourite TV show/dvd (any funny business and it's off). She usually chooses her clothes which can be a PITA but at least she's accepted getting dressed at all.

I don't insist that she wears a coat or eats or drinks anything. Eating and drinking is totally controlled by options - milk/juice/water in a cup/glass. She always chooses her cutlery - it's a major deal but distracts her from the bigger issues of actually having her dinnner.

She chooses her PJs, again, the choice distracts her from saying 'NO pjs!'. So Choices and consistent rituals have been our solution.

Never plead or beg. And don't appeal to thier sense of empathy and compassion - that's about a year away yet.

thankyou for all your lovely ideas and support... it seems that patience and creativity are the key, but in those mad hot moments it's not always easy to remember that x

i have found that choice helps, eg not 'shall we wash hands' but 'would you like hot or cold water' ... perhaps i have less resilience today and just can't find that extra mile (or marathon...)

will this last forever? is it so unreasonable to expect DS to DO AS HE IS ASKED!!!! will that ever happen???

x

we all scream and then sit whimpering in the corner sometimes

My DD is almost three and has been like this for what seems like years, (but is actually only about 5 months)Its exhausting.At one point I was ending every day feeling guiltly about how cross I had got with her and when i'd shouted..is no fun at all..
The giving choices and not engaging the argument have worked for me.As has Time out when things have got really bad..(put her in another room, but still visible obv till she has calmed down/says sorry)Have also found telling her well in advance what we are going to do helps..so say we are going out shopping in the afternoon, in the morning I will say to her, 'so DD.Today we are getting up, having a play, having breakfast, having another play, stories and a sleep, then going out to Tesco where if you are very good you can push the trolley..'and so on..seems to help if I dont spring things on her..(but can backfire if I have to change plans for some reason, then she has a paddy because she wants to do what we orginally said)

I often put myself in Time Out. I come up to my pc and mn until dd stops wailing begs me to return.

well he'll do what you want just enough so you keep loving him him to bits, then when you think you've got this motherhood madness sorted, he'll start all over again

Asking him please to be kind is just portraying yourself as helpless: frankly, I think that is a bit of an unkind thing to do with a 3yo. A much better approach is the brisk, 'well. we're going now, here is your coat', take him by the hand and walk off. If he doesn't come out of bath straight away, just whisk him out without pleading or arguing.

Offering choice and distraction is brilliant, but it's not every day we feel up to it. Calmly getting on with things without offering a choice is a good second best.

mmm i dont know if asking him to be kind is portraying helplessness... he does understand the concept of kindness, eg knowing how to be kind to littler ones at playgroup etc... so he could also understand that he could be kind to mummy by listening and helping...

but yes i think a brisk approach could also be a very good option... not too many words or story just on with the day...

He is testing boundry's to find out where he fit's in life - he is just realising that he has a choice and can exert an influence in his world. He needs to know that you are in charge and are his parent.y

For me - distraction & making it a game work when you have time. Using simple comands when you don't. Use as few words as possible.

My DS1 has been a PIA for ages - we have tried 1,2,3 magic to some sucess and now have just ben reading Raising your spirited child.

But to be honest I also think all of these things are a phase and now approaching 4 he is alot happier with where he is in life somehow.

yes pippylongstocking, he is finding his way and it is wonderful... and i want to celebrate and help develop his assertiveness and independence, while encouraging co-operation around the practical realities of life.

when it flows easy all is lovely,,, when battleground it is heartbreaking and totally exhausting.

DS was an angel this morning, i used cosy stories and suddenly we were dressed and outside in a flash,

may every day flow as sweetly...

And whenever you have a rotten day- don't hesitate, come on here and we'll pour you a virtual glass of wine!

We all have these days.

I have to admit, I did find the age of 3 particularly difficult to deal with in both of mine. So I kind of wondered if maybe it is a particularly difficult age to be. You're sort of half baby, half child and don't quite know where you belong. Early practice for the teenage years, I suppose.

But so far (eldest is 12), every single age we've been through since has been easier than the terrible threes.

I agree mamatilly, 3 year olds definitely understand kindness, so letting your child know it's not good to be mean to Mummy's surely a positive. As a parent of course we have to be in charge, but I never understand it when people say 'you're not their friend, you're their parent' - honestly, why can't you be both..?
Yes children like knowing where they stand, so it's the parent's role to set the boundaries. At that age too, give them an inch they most definitely will take and then take some more. Within that though, it's got to be important to provide a sense they're listened to. As lots of people on here have said, giving two choices (both of which are acceptable to you), seems to work well. Let's face it if someone kept on at you to 'do it my way and no, you have no choice at all in it', you'd probably kick off too. I know they're only children, but they're still people after all. Virtually impossible when they're in full blown tyrant mode though..

Game is good. However, the most effective option that we have with ds (now 3.5, but we've had this sort of thing for about a year or so ) is to say 'fine, we're going out anyway, so you will just have to get cold' (also works with pjs), or 'here is your towel, you dry yourself, I'm going to do something else as you clearly don't want my help' - but of course, being there when they suddenly realise that they do want x and that they need help to achieve it.

So ds has been told that he will be going to school some days in his pjs, some days with nothing on unless he gets his clothes on - and I am willing to carry this out if necessary. I have also got into the car, and started the engine on two occasions (within the drive when he was refusing to get into the car - I wouldn't drive off in this case of course!).

A cuddle when all is resolved is also a very good reward in these circumstances!

Only read the OP (sorry - am a lazy arse) so sorry if repeating but I'd say pick your battles. DD is 2.5 and if she won't put her coat on I simply say, "Well, I'll carry it and if you get cold you can put it on." I guarantee that it is on within three minutes of leaving the house.

Holding hands by roads is non-negotionable. She holds hand or is strapped in her buggy - regardless of the screams. As she gets older I will just stop exactly where we are and shepherd her into a safe corner until she's ready to hold hands and carry on.

Exerything else - choices. If I ask/tell DD to get dressed and she says no, then I just give her a choice of two things to wear - she forgets that she's not getting dressed in the excitement of being allowed to chose.

Sounds simple, but drives me crazy not showing her how frustrating it is. If I don't react then she does it less.

I imagine others have said it, but at the end of the day you are not your son's friend in these circumstances - you are his mum. He will feel far more secure if he has boundaries and knows what they are.

HTH.

Just skimmed through other posts and agree with all.

I also give DD five minute warnings of when we need to leave/she needs to do something. Even so, getting her out of the bath is still a struggle sometimes.

Ah but if you pull the plug they soon get out as the cold gets them

Its either that or the cold tap [evil]!!!

Blimey, MT am impressed - have finally found someone more evil than me