Does any body have older toddlers /kids with speech delay -??

[escape]

Ds1 is 3 (last week) he is starting proper therapy soon.
he barely puts two words together. He does get a bit better, but then evens out for weeks on end with no new words, nothing.
I am an intelligent, educated, non fussy, down to earth mum - but why won't he speak!
(question nobody else can answer I know)
I honestly think I'll be sitting here in ayear typing the same thing.
Nobody is fearinf ASD by the way - I just have a horrible suypicion - with no proof - that there's going to be something else.
I need a little boy now - not a baby
I think I'm going to cry...

thanks Riven
how are you - did you ever get your housework sorted
Its not like me , but I'm exhausted with him
can't be bothered to potty train, as i know its just a battle I'm not going to win.
his little brother speaks as much as him and is clearer too

Has he had a hearing test? I think hearing is often the root of speech delays, and it's a relatively easy thing to check.

My 2 year old says virtually nothing, but as dh didn't speak until he was 3 (and then spoke in full sentences) I'm not overly worried. Ds2 understands what is said to him. If he doesn't pick up soon I will get his hearing checked just so I know.

Are you suspecting anything specific? Or just generally worried?

I used to childmind a boy who had profound verbal dyspraxia. He also showed some AS/ASD tendencies when he was younger but the SALT felt they were due to his communication difficulties and he certainly seemed to 'grow' out of a lot of them when he started to talk. At 2 1/2 he said no words at all. by 3 1/2 he had a VERY small one word vocab but with SALT support and help from home, me and playschool he was talking by the time he went to school.

A friends ds, did not start speaking until he was about 4 or 5. (He's now 24ish) He could understand instructions, but would not speak. When they finally got referred, the therapist asked him why he didn't talk - he replied "I don't want to" Afaik, he didn't have the confidence to talk, although he could actually talk very well, iyswim.

my ds is 3.3 and was diagnosed with HFA at 3 in last 3 mths speech has come along great they say to verbalise everything you do as to speak you need to understand the actions to the words my ds has come along brilliant for this

SLAT wouldnt deal with my ds as said his leevl iof speech and understanding wasnt there but i phoned her today and said im not being fobbed off his speech is coming alonga nd feel we need extra help as since dx havent even heard from her

she is going to review him in 3 weeks

dont get frustrated with him its not his fault although i do remember how tiring it was give lots of choices so has to respond even with a point and then you can say what that something is for eg oh you want the blue cup

my ds has in last 3 mths started putting words together and is now doing 4-5 words and barely doing 2 3 mths ago
is there anything in his behaviour that worries you at all does he look at youw ehn talking as never noticed my ds has great eye contact until speaking he looks away

ask to be reffered to hearing clinic and if all is well then it could be a delay if you have any worries about his behaviour at all then speak to hv who can refer you

just to let you know sorry i went to gp for lack of speech at 2 not hv they refered me to child pediatrician who observed his behaviour in tasks set and in turn refered me to an assessment team so amybe see gp with concerns and get the ball rolling first thing will be hearing test and then go from there good luck i fuly understand but think how frustrating it is for them also

maybe try some amkaton see and sign so it will also encourage speech and help with the frustration

makaton me and my spelling lol

Escape, my DS2 just had his third birthday and is at about the same level. I'm increasingly confident that he doesn't have any ASD. The worry is horrible, isn't it? How do you discipline them? How can you potty train them? Mine's August born which compounds the problem.
We might need a general support thread as this comes up again and again.

I've read three books, for what it's worth:

1. "What to do if he's not talking yet". Didn't like it. Lots of practical advice for US parents about how to get maximum therapy under the US system. Lots of banging on about how he should have been in speech therapy at 20 months.
2. "The Einstein Syndrome: Bright Children who talk late". As you can imagine, the diametric oppose of item 1 above! Points out that three quarters of kids like ours catch up by 5 and that labelling them can be very dangerous.

But by far the best, and worth the extraordinary fifty quid I spent to get it is 3. "It takes Two to Talk" by the Hanen Foundation. It's utterly non-judgmental. It teaches you how to do speech therapy at home through cartoons. It's wonderful wonderful wonderful. It doesn't have that awful list of "what to expect at what age" or "things that should make you frightened" or "possible conditions your child might have". It just gets on with showing you how to communicate. It's appropriate whether or not your child turns out to have special needs. DH is so happy because he feels closer to DS2 since reading it because he's using the techniques.

Thanks Lingle
and all - very useful.
SALT put him at about 9 mnths behind - i'd say more like 12.
yes he's an August baby.
he's on the waitlist for the Kindergarten at his sisters school, but to be honest, when the call comes, I don't think they'll take him anyway

My DD is 5 and has a speech delay. We started the Hannen course 9 months prior to her starting school. At that stage she wouldnt talk in front of anyone apart from me and DH, and noone else could really understand anything she sometimes said to them!!
The Hannen course was fantastic, really practical no nonsense advice and tips to use in every day life.
She started school last September adn was still sometimes difficult to understand, however this year has seen real improvement and now she just needs a bit of SALT input for certain letters that she can say but cant say in a word (IYKWIM)
She has amazed everyone, including us, so dont panic............they speak when they want to then they dont stop!!

been there, done that, worn the T-Shirt last march. At 36 months DS was assessed as at 24 months for expressive speech and 18-24 months for receptive speech (understanding) Since then, DS has improved a lot - he's still got a moderate language delay (so is a year behind for both) but uses sentences, can explain things that he's recently done, what he wants etc. I also find there are plateaus - that it's not linear progress at all, but stop -start -stop with progress.

What helped:-
1)agree with escape about the Hanen book It Takes Two to Talk. Lots of marvellous practical suggestions. You can get it a little cheaper (around £35) from a company called Winslow Publications

2)using very very simple language (if you don't suspect a delay with understanding, then may not be quite as necessary). so lots of "brush hair", "DS eat" etc - so trying to remember to use one word more in a phrase than DS currently could.

3)using photos/pictures to explain things/talk about places and family members

4)Using PECs (picture exchange system) to build up sentences.

5)Private SALT (couldnt' get NHS first appointment until DS was 3.8).

Ask NHS SALT if they have any courses/classes you and or DS could do in addition to his appointments.

BTW - SALT is in no way a "quick fix" - a lot of the work will be you and other family/carers working through the sort of games/excercises that NHS SALT recommend at the appointments. Also first appointment(s) may feel frustrating, as they can concentrate a lot on assessment at first.

I can second the "it takes two to talk" book, and also suggest another one, think it's called "baby talk" by Sally Ward.

How is your ds's understanding?

dd1 has quite a severe speech delay, and is also ASD. Speech is the biggest of her problems. she is just 4, and a world away from even a year ago, but she too has fits and starts of improvements.

do come over and post on the special needs section - there's lots of advice to be found there.

by no means am i saying he'll have ASD but the route i went before i found my ds had it was hearing test etc first and observations and thats when it was picked up it was something more but he is like any other little boy his speech is comin g along great is potty training although doesnt tell me he wants to go he goes independantly

pull ups when out for obvious reasons dry at home he still understands what im saying even if unable to speak back

so i jas long as he can do what you ask such as go get your shoes coat etc shouldnt be too much of a problem if he doesnt understand simple tasks this needs to be addressed

bubbla - your SALT sounds to be taking the piss quite frankly, does your city have any specialist teams within SALT department, like early intervention team or autism team? As they may have a decent attitude and have more experienced staff so be better at looking after your DS. It's good though that he's doing so well anyway despite the SALT problems.

lingle -

discipline. keeping language very simple. "No - dangerous!" or "No, not in road!" rather than aiming for detailed explanations.

toilet training. DS would take himself to loo when at home and nursery, out and about I would ask him regularly if he needed the toilet and he could indicate yes or no fairly realiably. He was toilet trained for several months before he could actually say "I need the toilet".

hi tc i know i was so angry phoned her today and said i feel she is taking the mick as ds may never want to talk at pre school and thats all there doing is setting tasks to get him to talk and as i saifd as hes so calm and does his own thing at pre school they probably spend more time with the problamatic children and just leave ds

and also said the fact he talks when he is at home why isnt she doing something to either help me or him so we can help witrh speech sounds as have always been abnormal and still are and she should be helping with this fed me loads of you know what

and i said i want him assessed again and more help and she has promised in few weeks as they ar eat new site and not set up again yet she will see him and assess and see where we are now

we have no specialist anything just her and thats why im so mad as we have a yr till school and i intend to fight for every bit of help before then

he has come along great you know my past threads etc he is now nunny wuggly [lovely] kirt [skirt]

or no not not paint on the door lol all no nots but lots of words after now more than few months back when only just getting blue cup etc

just such a struggle as i know where being fobbed off as she has such huge work load but my boy is my everything so i have to be warrier mummy now lol

He does 'understand' me giving him commands/directions etc.

never ever tries to recall anything to you, describe something etc.
SALt did mention this
she showed him some cards and was expecting him to describe the situation.
they were really random!
For example; a woman walking along - her bag had split and fruit fallen out. some boys had taken the fruit and were eating it.
DS1 could point and say 'apple' (well, papple') and at the bag with the hole and say 'oh no!' so he did have some undersatnding.
Basically h can name objects in pictures, but can't describe whats happening - except 'baby cry cry)

Escape. Why wouldn't they take him at the Kindergarten?

Chin up! Our boys are going to do great! You're confident he doesn't have ASD? And his motor skills seem fine? What's the issue? Is it tantrums? Hitting/biting?

And he does not have to go to school at 4, he can go at 5. We can put ours in a class together

Seriously, I wonder if we could ask Mumsnet to have a subsection of the development section for late talkers. How do you go about this?

funny what you say about keeping language simple as i thought I was too simple with him, wityh your comments it seems about right.

yes seeing what total wrote ther ei was told to keep sentences to 3 words when speeking to him you want drink, blue or red cup, you like dinner, oven very hot, mummy cooking dinner etc so not too many words to take in

wee on potty, you need wee, you get the drift it really worked for my ds the verbalising my actions and using short sentences he came along leaps he closed off when it got too complicated couldnt explain things dont go in road you'll get hit bycar etc, stop road dangerous , always said stop when i got to road , look for cars , no cars ok go

he started saying stop when got to road and look for cars and then go

alot of repetitiveness i found i was quiet around him because he was so took me a while to get used to verbalising but once i did it and saw benefits from it iot came naturally and do it without thinking now

escape - are you in UK? just wondered because of ref to kindergarten.

also - DS at that age knew plenty of nouns, but few verbs - so might be an idea to focus on verbs to build up more phrases and little sentences - "throw ball" or "mummy throw" then "mummy throw ball" etc.

lingle - problem with delaying start of school is they make make your boy go straight into year 1 rather than start reception at 5.

escape - are you in UK? just wondered because of ref to kindergarten.

also - DS at that age knew plenty of nouns, but few verbs - so might be an idea to focus on verbs to build up more phrases and little sentences - "throw ball" or "mummy throw" then "mummy throw ball" etc.

lingle - problem with delaying start of school is they my make your boy go straight into year 1 rather than start reception at 5.

Hopefully not re school TotalChaos.

In the Bradford area, they let you start August borns a year later in reception. They tried to take this right away six months ago. I've never run so fast to catch a train in my life as I did to get to that meeting of Bradford's executive council once I found out about this threat. Two of the Councillors took up the cause and they retained the right to defer then go to reception. Now they are waiting for publication of the forthcoming report on primary schooling, as Sir Jim Rose has been asked to come up with more "flexible" ways of dealing with August entry. So my fingers and just about every other part of my body are crossed pending this.....