DD 22 months just ruined our break away. Why is she like this just when we go away?

[jogym]

The 4 of us decided to go for a break away for a few days before DD1 goes back to school. We decided to go away to a nice hotel with a pool etc. Bad mistake. My 22 month old turned into the demon from hell developed a blood curdling scream and drove us all potty. She is quite stubborn at the best of times but I've never seen her like this before (well with the exception of our holiday abroad in June). Is there some kind of destruct button they can press to ruin everybody else's holiday. Examples are: refusing to get undressed and dressed and pinning her arms to her sides so you can't get anything off, screaming when put in pram, embarrassing us when eating where we had to scoff our food down us and basically flee before we got any more looks, not staying in high chair, trying to throw the plate at us when finished her food,when lifting her out not staying at the table and roaming round the restaurant, up and down steps etc. starting to yell when a sausage fell on her knee or fork drops on the floor, pulling her shoes off and saying sore foot, sore leg, things that we have come across at home but while away x10. I just can't understand it and I don't know how to deal with it. My mum says I need to be more firm with her. I don't know what to do differently than what I'm actually doing. My husband even threatened to pack our bags and go home the first day as he couldn't stick it any longer. It was like a different child. Can anyone explain why and is this normal. She was starting to scare me!

jogym - you got honest feedback aand advice. If you didn't want it she shouldn't have asked for it. There are parenting websites where they hug you and call you hun.

OP did you maybe mean to post

"thanks for these thoughts, I take your point, what I meant was...?" rather than

"thought this website was for advice and not criticism. I have read other posts and it seems to be that some ladies! are quite judgemental and like to get their point across!! (gingerninja!). Will maybe get my advice elsewhere."

If you want fluffy, go to netmums. I don't think anyone's been judgemental and I think you've had quite a bit of advice and some good suggestions. But your choice if you don't want to take any notice

LOL, I'd like to see where I've been judgemental and like to get my point across. You haven't been around long eneough to know me then.

I maintain that if you ask for opinions you have to accept that you'll get different ones to yours.

Not really sure why you've singled me out but frankly I do wonder why some people bother useing these kind of forums when they don't appreciate the overwhelming nature of the response they have.

You know, some of us don't just come on here to idle the hours away. We give constructive feedback when it's requested because it can help.

Netmums

Yes, the children did ruin her holiday. Whats so wrong about saying that, if its the truth? Jogym didnt say "I hate my children because they ruined my holiday" which would of course led, and quite rightly, to lots of judgemental posts. Shes saying what a lot of us (ie mothers who are not 100% perfect) can feel from time to time. Motherhood is rewarding but there are times when our kids drive us mad and I would hope we could freely admit this on mumsnet. It seems instead we all have to be politically correct. Sad really. We should remember there are a lot of women out there who have nowhere else to turn and come on here to get friendly advice and not to be preached to.

There I've had my say.

if we ate at restaurants at that point, one adult was always roaming around the building with the little one (to keep them away from the waiters and other guests), if they couldn't be distracted at the table. no, we never all got to eat together, no you don't sit and listen to the screams (it irritates everyone else) and yes, one of you gets up to take them somewhere else and cheer them up.
it's not the time to be enforcing rules etc, otherwise you're going to ruin to everyone else's holiday. and whilst we'll all smile in sympathy, i'll be thinking 'why on earth doesn't she/he get up and take the child away and sort her out?'
i have fond memories of letting dd dance in the foyer for hours whilst everyone else ate. i wasn't overly happy at the time, but i remember it fondly now.
sorry it was horrid, but it's never particularly successful with a tot, unless you're blessed with a very placid type, and few of us are!

She asked if anyone could give an explanation as to why her child behaved like this and was it normal. The responses explained that it was normal, why it was normal and gave advice of how it could be handled differently.
I wish people would say that just wanted hugs if that's what they wanted so people who dont do hugs could avoid posting.

Her children did ruin her holiday, oh right, ha ha ha ha

If I want lovely calm meals out I hire a babysitter, if I take my children I accept that they are children and adjust my expectations ofl the evening accordingly.

ruined implies it was done deliberately
a point made several times is that you need to lower your expectations when you have young children. expecting them to sit nicely in new and exciting and unfamiliar circumstances is unrealistic

lowering expectations can lead to less disappointment
being scared of normal toddler behaviour would indicate that the OP has very high expectations of her child

I don't think any of us where judgy - didn't say "ooh what crap parents you are". All we were saying is that it sounds, from what you posted, like you had an expectation of your dd's behaviour that was beyond what most 22 mth old children are capable of maintaining in the face of uncertainty and a new environment. And yes, children have different personalities, but also as parents we forget very quickly. Ds is 4 on his next birthday and I am preoccupied by his behaviour now. If you asked me about when he was 22 mths, I would probably have forgotten quite alot about the difficult behaviour that I was dealing with then. BUT the benefit of hindsight is that I can see how very very young 22 mths is!

But summer, that is utter crap. No one said motherhood was easy, no one said they had the perfect solution. You yourself came on with advice to ignore the other diners which by your reackoning means you think you have the answers.

Frankly when I go away I always say to people 'it's the same shit just somewhere less comfortable'. Holidays with little kids are not always fun but it very much depends on what you expect as a parent. If you expect too much you'll be disappointed but to blame it on the children is unfair.
They haven't even got a clue what a holiday is at 2 so how in hell can they be out to ruin in. It has to be how you manage that as a parent and that isn't a management of their behaviour it's a management of your expectations.

i don't think we critised, we pointed out your DD was behaving normally for her age and in a situation which isn't as stimulating and fun as it is for us adults - Family holidays in my opinion should revolve around the kids, even mini breaks away....make sure there lots to do and that resturants are kiddy friendly and full of other equally as loud kids.

Its the reason i fell in love with Portugal and Villa Holidays, out and about you don't feel looked at or frowned upon when you have your kids out late, if they play up the staff offer to help, no one frowns or tuts it's expected to have a lively child out with you.

You say your DD wasn't bored, she had crayons and a picture to colour in - how many 22 month olds do you know who will sit still for more than an hour with just that to do. I think her behaviour shows she was bored, she wanted to explore her new surroundings and at that age she has no sense of danger so she wasn't to know walking near the kitchen doors was a no no.

She only took her shoes off when out walking - well you say she had been walking for more than an hour, so maybe her feet were sore.

We are simply trying to put your experience into perspective, and show that had any of us tried to go to a NICE hotel with our 22 month olds, near on 95% of them would have behaved in the same way as your DD.

save your nice hotel breaks for when you can get the kids looked after by grandparents or willing volunteers and stick with butlins and hoseasons for the next few years for family get aways!

Here is some advice...we have all probably been through it in some way.

Sometimes I am amazed how everything on MN seems to be 'get over it - its a phase' and 'you are overreacting' etc. When you are in the throes of difficult behaviour its hard to understand why its happening and what to do with it. It is upsetting, it is confusing and it is not always you being a hideous parent.

Sorry you felt your holiday was ruined, this may have been 'normal' behaviour to other parents but it sounds like hell!

We all have moments when our kids make us want to pull our hair out - but if we reflect on it, then we can usually contextualise it. There is a difference from saying "I felt like our holiday was ruined because our dd's behaviour" and "dd ruined our holiday".

In any case, most of what people wrote here were suggestions to ease some of the problems next time, so that everyone can relax and enjoy each others company on holiday. I have a very wilful and strong-minded ds, but have only ever enjoyed holidays because we plan them around having a child. If we want a weekend away at a "nice" hotel, we will try to get a willing grandparent to babysit or wait until ds is older and capable of understanding how to behave.

My DD3 is 23 months and won't even sit in a high chair now, straps or no straps! We let her kneel up on a regular chair - no harm done.

Getting dressed - if she doesn't co-operate I say "fine" and walk away. If we need to go out and she doesn't want to get dressed or put her shoes on then we go anyway, pyjamas are clothes, and shoes can go in my bag and be put on later when she's distracted/calmed down.

If she throws her plate I take it away. She is old enough to learn action/reaction.

I think with a nearly-2-year-old you have to choose your battles otherwise the whole day could just be one long battle, and even more so on holiday. Relax, go with the flow a bit and don't worry unduly what other people are thinking - after all you'll never see them again!

My child didn't ruin my holiday maybe I should have used a different phrase. We had a great time with our other DD taking in the sights of the Causeway etc. Our other DD1 just didn't enjoy it as much.

TBH with you a lot of posters on here sound like know alls those type of women you steer clear of! as they know everything hun!

Oh and summer and june - no one here has suggested that we have never felt stressed out by our children's behavior, but I would never ever say that if a holiday was ruined it was because of the screaming/bad behaviour by a baby. If it was ruined it was because a) it was a bad idea in the first place b)we forgot we were dealing with a baby c) we had far too high expectations for our baby and for the holiday d) we completely lost our sense of humour over the way children some times behave...

All we are saying is that yes it sounds like it was difficult, but it is impossible that there was any intent behind it.

Here is a question, why do some many people post on MN ostensible for advice and then say that all they wanted was sympathy?

And whatever happened to "you have a point, maybe our expectations were a bit high" as a response?

er we don't do "hun"! Maybe just the voice fo experience , bitter experience even,. We've done "nice" hotels with ours, and it can be hard going anwyhere with toddlers, but you make compromises and generally most "nice" hotels, in Europe at least, are willing to accommodate younger ones if you ask.

FWIW, a lot of these 'know alls' helped me through some really rough times in the early days. Experience is very very useful when you haven't any or you're experiencing something new. People spend time and go to the trouble of responding to the REQUEST for advice and sharing their experiences. Please don't waste peoples time asking for advice if it's not wanted.

"ostensibly" oops

I think there was good advice given on here. don't take a 22 month old to a nice hotel and expect her to sit with you at the dinner table or behave like an adult. Maybe try a different type of holiday.
As for ruining the holiday...what about her holiday....doesn't sound like she had much fun either.

my dd2 was a nightmare if we ate out at that age, we avoided it like the plaqu unless it was a special occasion and we had to show face with family.

then it would envolve dh walking around the resturant garden till her dinner was served then she would sit and eat with us, after dinner one of us would have to take her out again while the other finished up and paid the bill.

thank god those days are over now.

ignore all the typos

Yes ginger, I have had a lot of great advice (and sympathy when I really needed it) on MN - some of it made me sit back and think about the way I look at things or the way I have assessed a situation. Sometimes I find some of it rude, sometimes very funny.

However, I think that the best MNers tend to try to be rational rather than emotional in their responses and that is what makes the advise so helpful if you choose to see it that way.