Late again - first day back at school! Suggestions please?

[Inkpen]

I have a nearly-6-year old ds; and a 3 yo dd. Nearly 6 does NOT like school, does not want to go. Neither of them, at the moment, for various reasons, is sleeping well, therefore they're always tired in the mornings. Getting them up is hell; getting them fed and out of the door on time is proving impossible.
Now here's the dilemma - I can't work out how to create a suitably tempting star-chart/reward system that is fair. How do you define which bit of dawdling from which child made us late this morning? Who gets the reward, and who doesn't? They can both be as bad as each other and all too often, when you've hustled one into getting ready just about on time, the other one then throws a spectacular wobbly ... but then again, if the first one had been quicker, there would have been time for no 2 to have the wobbly and still be on time ... Am I making any sense here? Sorry, it was an early start (for me, at least!).
Is it fair to do that old school routine - 'if one of you doesn't own up, you all miss playtime'? Can't see 3 yo dd even understanding that one and she certainly doesn't respond to peer pressure.
So help, suggestions! We cannot go on being late for school every single day and I can't seem to get through to them that being on time (for something you don't even want to go to) is important! Never mind his school report, it's the scary headteacher that's worrying me!

My only suggestion would be to firstly make sure you are organised the night before ready for the mornings, leave yourself only the essentials to do in the morning. Make sure packed lunch (if you need to do one) is done, shoes are cleaned, book bag & PE kit ready, school clothes are ready, coats, gloves, shoes by the door THE NIGHT BEFORE then at least you don't have the frantic searching for stuff just as you are trying to get out of the door. Also, could you ensure that you are up, dressed and completely ready before the kids wake up.
I think that a star chart is a good idea but this could be broken down into specifics and maybe a separate one for each child, for older one, cleaning teeth, getting dressed, brushing hair, sitting nicely during breakfast and getting shoes and coat on the first time of asking - for the younger one letting you clean her teeth, getting dressed herself (or whatever she can do - maybe putting her socks on herself), sitting nicely during breakfast and letting you put her coat on first time etc. etc.
My kids (9 & 6) like to watch cartoons in the morning but I have a rule that the TV does not go on until they are both ready (dressed, breakfasted, teeth cleaned, hair done) and the tv is turned off 10 minutes before we are due to leave the house. Good luck, I find mornings can be very stressful!!

Good suggestions Jaybee (I will try some of them myself as we too are often late for school!) I must add though, that the one rule I ALWAYS stick to now is no telly before school at all. My 5 yr old d.d adores t.v. and this was one reason we were late every single day. Now they are used to the rule and don't bother to ask! Totally agree with having everything ready the night before. Whenever I am too knackered in the evenings to do this, I always regret it the next morning!

I can honestly say that the kids have never been late for school, I have the advantage of only living two minutes walk from the school so I can never blame the traffic!! I leave for work straight after dropping the kids at school so I suppose I have to be organised, i.e. me looking half presentable, washing up done, beds made, house looking reasonable (or not!!).
Inkpen - you say that your 6-year old doesn't like school - can you expand on that? Does the school agree with you or is it just that he hates actually going to school rather than actually being there - maybe if getting him to school is proving stressful then that will be making him worse!!

only time for a quick message inkpen, but I can so relate to this and think you are being very brave about organising a star chart to beat this habit.

I have an 8 year old and a 3 year old to get ready in the mornings, both reluctant risers like yours. Luckily the youngest is OK about getting dressed etc on the whole, though I have to do everything for him still, so less chance to procrastinate. The oldest now, Ahhhh!

Two tips: I lure him awake by telling him about a nice thing that will be happening that day, as in 'wake up you've got your swimming lesson today' this works far better on my son than 'wake up because you will be late for school if not'
Secondly, I have to watch him like a hawk. It is no good telling him to get dressed. I have to break it down into put on your trousers, good, now put on your shirt, excellent, now do your tie, fantastic etc etc and watch him for most of this. If left unattended he runs out of steam in a minute and will sit there half dressed staring into space.

I am to stressed to even think of star charts! not a very punctual person myself by nature. Must dash (am late getting my son's supper ) but will add more tomorrow.

Inkpen - I've been mulling this over, and will probably come across as a complete control freak, we have LOADS of rules for mornings, but it works for us:

They (3.5 and 5.5) don't come downstairs until they are dressed. Ds2 is quite capable of sorting himself out completely, but can be reluctant. He gets a sticker at the moment if he does it all himself. A while back DS1 was taking 30 mins to get dressed, so I put a stop watch on him for a week or so, and we made charts, drew graphs, etc., and the result was fantastic. He could get dressed completely in under 2 minutes, and he knows that now.

When they are down they have breakfast first. They don't get any 'choosing time' until they've finished their breakfast. If there's time left, then they get to play for a while. I give them a 10 minute, and 5 minute warning, before they have to do teeth and put shoes/coats etc. on. We always allow more time than I need at that point, and we always leave with 5 minutes extra, in case we need to stop en route to look at slugs for a long time!

For us the flash point is that last getting ready to leave the house bit, because at this time of year it takes so much longer with hats, gloves and scarves, as well as coats and shoes.

Hope that helps!

kmg - what do they eat for breakfast that you can be absolutely sure there will be no spillage onto their nice clean clothes?

I have always discouraged DD from dressing first even though it seems like a good idea for this reason.

KMG - I'm impressed: you are clearly an organised person. The sort I would like to be (so who am I kidding - this is probably hereditary!). It's the five minutes built in for watching slugs that I really need, isn't it? :-)
We do have everything ready the night before, but the problem is those morning things that can only happen then, because I can't leave ds for a second. If I do, nothing happens ... not only does he not dress himself but this morning, for example, I literally had to pull the duvet off and haul him out of pjs and into uniform while he lay down on the bed, refusing even to move a limb! I timed it and it took 40 minutes just to get both of them up and dressed and downstairs with breakfast before them.
I like the idea of individual star-charts; I also like the idea of 'choosing time' if you get ready in time - bribery will definitely work with ds.
He does seem to like school OK once he's there but he's always been very bad at transitions. I've had the 'don't wanna go' routine ever since nursery. I gnash my teeth when I see other little moppets running cheerily through the school gates while I drag my scowling monster across the playground! But I do keep feeling that if I could just crack this morning bit so it's not as stressful that it would improve his day no end ... so all suggestions gratefully received.

Hi Inkpen, you have already had some great advice here...I agree with SueW though, dd is such a messy eater she would be going to school wearing most of her cereal on her uniform!

My two are 6 and almost 4. I have a chart with the basic steps for getting ready, each with a little picture next to it. We don't use it much anymore. We also do the no TV before school thing, although if they have gotten ready very quickly or have lots of time I will let them watch one or two short shows. It does seem to be that last five or ten mins that kills it doesn't it - no matter how early I think we're running, in the end we never are!

Inkpen, maybe you could have a "school clock", one that is set 5 or 10 mins early, so if you get ready according to the time on that clock (even though you know it is wrong!) you should theoretically end up on time!

My other suggestion, seeing you feel that bribery and incentives might work on ds especially (and as he seems so reluctant to go to school in the first place which obviously doens't help!), would be not only to set it up with a reward in place, ie if you get ready without fuss you get a sticker and if you get 5/8/whatever stickers in a fortnight you will get a treat/outing/etc., but also that if he doesn't get at least that many, he will lose something he enjoys eg playstation for two days etc. That way he is in control of whether he gets his reward or not; make sure he understands that he is the only one who determines whether he wins or loses in the end.

You could also get the class teacher involved if possible, with a star chart of some sort in the class, seeing whether he is late or not effects him or her in some way, s/he might be willing to work with you to help motivate him! HTH!

Just wanted to sympathise. Thought of this thread when we woke up at 8.30am this morning, which is the time we normally leave. Poor ds had to get dressed pronto and eat his cereal in the car and I didn't even have time to go to the loo! Plus couldn't find my keys or bag for a good 5 minutes, yuk.

IMO at 6 your ds should be old enough to get himself dressed and ready himself, I bet he does it ok after PE at school. What about a bit of sibling competition - have done this with my two since dd was tiny - I left ds in his room with his clothes out ready, shouting through that dd has her nappy on now, dd is a clever girl, she has her socks on now etc. etc. when dd was ready she could play, this really annoyed ds who soon wanted to beat his sister. Another suggestion would be to threaten to send him to school in his pyjamas (and do it if necessary) - I know of a Mum who did this, she took her son to the Headmaster's office in his pyjamas saying that as he always seems to do as he is told at school then maybe they could get him to get dressed - only needed to do this once!! I suppose I have the advantage that I have always worked so they have always had to get up, get ready and out the door quickly - when it came to school they felt they were getting a lie in.
I also have a 'school clock' in the lounge and they also get their 10 minute and 5 minute warnings. Even though I am a fairly organised person I still find that the last few minutes before getting out of the door a nightmare - the practicalities of getting four kids (I take my friends two to school too) out the door with correct hats, gloves, bookbags, lunchboxes, swimming kits etc. leaves my nerves a bit stretched sometimes.

Thank you all for the suggestions and encouragement! This morning, scary headmistress was actually standing at the gate to comment on our late arrival ... (hey, we were earlier than yesterday). Like the idea of a special 'school clock' - might try a kitchen timer on him too.
Jaybee, that is awesome - the way you casually mention taking FOUR kids to school, two not even your own ...

Inkpen - it is five sometimes!! My neighbour's son is currently in hospital so I sometimes take their youngest one too!! My usual two extras arrive around 7:40 which means that I have to be up and dressed by then. I aim to have the kids up and ready by 8.00 which means that they have about 20 minutes of chilling, playing watching TV before they go to school - this is when I usually dry my hair, get my makeup on, wash up breakfast bits, then the final 10 minutes is a blur of teeth cleaning, tidying lounge, and getting out the door - oldest two first (both 9) - they walk to school on their own - no roads to cross, then final two (or three) - I always aim to leave the house 15 minutes before registration - as I have said before it only takes a couple of minutes to get there, I check that the older two are where they should be and the others into their classes. I think that the secret is getting them ready early, leaving both the kids and you a bit of time to relax before the hassle of actually getting them out the door, if they are always reluctant risers then they will still be reluctant twenty minutes earlier.

Well it's our turn tomorrow, inkpen. First school and nursery run since christmas. The boys are in bed, the clothes are out for tomorrow. I already do the school clock thing - as others say, it's a good safety net.

kmg, I am so in awe when you say your two don't come downstairs until they are dressed. It's good to know it is possible to train children this well, and this young, with star charts and graphs. I am so impressed that the 3.5 year old can pretty much dress himself - mine loves undressing, but putting clothes on is another matter. I usually dress him last, and just before we go out, otherwise he is prone to strip.

Inkpen, you are not alone in dressing your sleeping son in bed BTW - been there, done that. still do it in times of crisis. We too have a tut-tutting school head who watches the morning parade.

With my oldest son, I have tried bribery and rewards and taking away favourite things. At the moment he has a behaviour book via school, and I report on his behaviour each day - his teacher sees it - so I can write in praise or not on how he gets ready in the morning. Three days of good mornings and he is rewarded. Been trying for 2 months and some improvement but he has never made the three day target. The only thing that gets him going and keeps him going is near constant watching. I simply have to be in the same room as him, so he gets dressed and cleans his teeth in the living room.

He is much better at putting on his civvie clothes - the school uniform shirt and tie and shoes with shoe laces holds him up no end. When he started at this school, aged 7, his teachers immediately commented on his slowness in dressing - they have been working on this now for over a year. They were worried his classmates would laugh at him. He would shamelessly ask teachers for help in doing up his buttons etc something his teachers only do for infants. We have all seen improvement, but I fear this procrastination is a strong personality trait and I doubt it will ever get ironed out totally.

Since I am a bit of a faffer in the morning, I cannot blame my ds entirely, so I have tried to find ways of working round it, rather than stopping it, coward that I am - things like the school clock - and reminders backed up by constant checking up.

The good news: I had everything organised on Monday night for the first day back on Tuesday (have never achieved this before). Very proud of myself, and everything went like clockwork on Tuesday morning. The boys even asked if they could make it a regular thing, as the morning was so much easier.

The bad news: when we got to school, we discovered they should have gone back on Monday ... doh!

The thing I really like about MumsNet is being able to 'tune in' and find a thread that exactly reflects what's going on in your life at the moment!
Arrived at work flustered and late after a particularly difficult time getting out of the house and I'm not alone!
Have no good advice (except gritting teeth and keeping up a jovial tone, as shouting never seems to work for us). But will take a few tips from below.
Copper, awful, oh I can just imagine... (But it makes a very funny story!)

LOL Copper.

Copper, that's funny! I nearly took ds in on Monday but luckily discovered late on Sunday night that they started back on Tuesday so I know the feeling.

LOL copper - and I'm still not sure we got our day right, since I lost the bit of paper listing start dates.

Anyway, a fairly stress free morning, though 2 minutes late for school, but it doesn't count in my book - it started to snow hard 10 mins before we left. We averaged 5 miles in the car all the way. Now I know how useful it is to have traction control.

Took my dd back to school this morning after 3 weeks Christmas break - horrid having to get organised and out so early when its freezing cold and dark isn't it. DD's school starts at 8.30 registration and we live the farthest away and have to travel on the renowned busiest road in the SE as the govt. consistently refuses to fund a bypass (we have all the traffic from Dover, Folkestone ferries and Asford Eurotunnel on this road!!- massive container lorries,etc)So that's my excuse for being late occasionally. To tell the truth I'm so used to the infamous road that I know exactly how much time to leave at any time of the day and night to get anywhere!If we're late somewhere it is usually because I haven't factored in enough time to put my makeup on (SBT)

LOL Copper!
Scary head was in the playground again this morning. I've worked out why - it's Ofsted time next month! She encouraged ds to hurry up, he dutifully ran on ahead, dd (3 yo) tried to follow, fell flat on face, scraped knee, shredded tights and took five minutes to console ... during which time of course ds just stood watching and so we were late again. Perhaps tomorrow we'll ignore scary head!
Jaybee, I am much struck by your comment that a reluctant riser will still be reluctant twenty minutes later. There is the temptation to see a slumbering child and leave it as long as poss - especially when it's so rare to see it asleep at all! I have to get over this.
Dh is off to buy a large clock today and mark it up with 'Bathtime' 'Bedtime' 'Breakfast Time' etc.
The temptation is to have an adult version - 'Biscuit Time' 'Read the Paper Time' oh and a big section marked 'Mumsnet time' ...

CAM I think I know that stretch of road - poor you, what a journey.

Inkpen, let us know how the clock system goes, please - any tips gratefully received. I too have to overcome my reluctance to wake a slumbering child in the morning.

Good try Inkpen but your post should read 20 mins earlier not LATER!!! What about buying the kids alarm clocks for their rooms. Also, you could have one downstairs for 'time to put your coats on' - this could be set to go off about 10 mins before you need to leave. Sounds like your headmistress is in a panic over the Ofsted. At the school my friend's kids go to, there is no direct access to the classrooms once the school bell has rung - anyone who arrives after then has to enter the school through reception where the Headmaster usually sits - the children are always asked why they are late. The kids hate it and always nag their mum to ensure that they leave the house on time - maybe this is what your Headmistress is trying to do.

Scanning through this thread yesterday I was feeling disgustingly smug, or at least relieved that I'd managed to get at least one thing right.

You will, no doubt, be delighted to hear that I was feeling much less smug at 7.40 this morning, when I was desperately trying to wake ds1 and drag him from his bed for his first day back at school! Fortunately dh had had the foresight to arrange a treat for breakfast (croissants), which had much greater effect than any threats I could muster.

Re the dressing issue - I've found helping out at school has changed my views on this. At school they are expected to do more themselves, and they rise to the challenge. I therefore started expecting more at home, and once they know that you know that they can do it ... then they are sunk! Another thing that helped on the speed thing was swimming - our local baths has a band system, and I explained to ds1 that the time started from the time we paid at the desk, so the longer he took getting changed, the shorter time he would have in the pool. Certainly helped us!

Re breakfast on school uniforms - yes, sometimes they get a bit messy, but a quick attack with a baby wipe can work wonders. My two need a bit of extra time between waking up and eating (=getting dressed), but I don't think they would ever get dressed if they'd already had their breakfast..!

Anyway, hope you are all getting nicely back into your school-run routines now.

kmg - I definitely agree that the promise of something good helps get a reluctant riser out of bed far more easily than a threat. To be honest, I'd hate being woken up with a threat, too. I think one is specially vulnerable in that hazy time between sleeping and waking.

If my son doesn't get up when woken, I have now learned to soft peddle it. This means I have to think of a different enticement to get him down the stairs most mornings. Easy if there is fresh snow to wonder at, less easy if it is drizzling and he has a spelling test to look forward to.