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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

Am I cruel??!!

26 replies

melon1 · 15/01/2005 20:35

DD has been going to bed with no problems for the last month (by herself). She is 4 months old - I put her in her own room a week ago, and for the first 4 nights she was brilliant, but for the last 2 nights she just wont stop screaming! Last night I left her for 20 minutes, and in the end we brought her downstairs - she went back up at about 9.00, and even then cried herself to sleep. Tonight she is doing the same thing - we have the same bedtime routine as usual - bath, bottle, bed at 7.00pm - am I cruel to leave her to cry? If I do this for a few nights will she realise that she is not getting back up again and just go to sleep?

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rickman · 15/01/2005 20:38

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doggiewalker · 15/01/2005 20:41

I personally think 4 months is too young to be trying to get a steady bedtime routine going. She may well be going through a growth spurt, perhaps setting into solids and I think it's going to take a while yet to get her into a good bedtime routine.

Socci · 15/01/2005 20:46

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Moomina · 15/01/2005 20:48

I think 4 months is fine for a bedtime routine of some sort...but personally I would be loath to leave to cry at 4 months. Don't think you're cruel but I just think it's a bit young. I don't think she's old enough yet to actually realise about not getting up - if she's falling asleep after crying it's probably more from exhaustion.

FWIW, Richard Ferber (king of controlled crying) himself says not before 6 months... sorry!

shrub · 15/01/2005 20:49

it may be teething/hunger/growth spurt or just wanting to be held.
they are only tiny once so i would answer her cries though i appreciate how completely knackering it is!
you could also try a muslin square or small toy and put your scent on it by putting it in your bra/round your neck/under your armpits for an hour (as long as you don't wear perfume deodorant!)
we also had something called a 'tomy dream light show' which projected images and music for 5 mins while my ds1 went to sleep
if teething carrot sticks in the fridge helped

lowcalCOD · 15/01/2005 20:50

oh yes give her a cuddel

Amanda3266 · 15/01/2005 20:57

We got into the habit with DS of playing his Winnie the Pooh light show while he was having his final feed (in his bedroom) so he associated it with going to bed. He still likes it on age 2.

ghosty · 15/01/2005 20:58

I have a theory about controlled crying and young babies ....
I did CC very very young with DS (bad advice given from a certain book I don't care to mention but starts with C and ends in ontentedlittlebabybook ... )
DS has always been a bad sleeper ... and even now at 5 he fights sleep. As soon as he wakes up he gets up even at 5am if he is still tired. As a baby he always cried the minute he woke up.
He hates being in bed and I think he feels anxious when he wakes up.
I have never left DD to cry for longer than 3 to 5 minutes ... from day one and never ever did CC. She always goes to bed happily and never cries in her cot, she never cries when she wakes up and always sings ... She wakes around 6.30am every day and I can leave her playing and singing for up to 45 minutes if I really have to (but I rarely do leave her that long obviously)
So my theory is that CC at such a young age with DS made him into an anxious and poor sleeper ...
And not doing CC with DD has made her into a chilled sleeper.
I could be wrong and if DD developed sleeping problems now I wouldn't hesitate to do CC (she is nearly 1) ... but I definitely think that CC under 6 months will backfire in the long run.
G xxx

jasper · 15/01/2005 21:47

4 months is very young. Too young I think for leaving to cry.She won't understand . She wants a cuddle off her mum!

Gillian76 · 15/01/2005 21:52

I would say 4 months is young for crying it out too. And 20 minutes is a very long time. I think most people recommend going in every few minutes or so if you're going down that route. Don't stress too much about it either. At this stage, you no sooner think you've got them sussed when thye change the rules! She will soon settle into a more predictable routine. just enjoy these early days when you can

Blossomhill · 15/01/2005 21:52

Personally Melon I think dd is too young to be left to cry! I didn't do that until my ds was at least 9 months.

lockets · 15/01/2005 21:53

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mishi1977 · 15/01/2005 22:02

hi
im not a cc fan but i agree with what someone else said about putting a cd on...i found that around 4/5mths my ds seemed to go through a stage of not liking the dark so i used to put a low lamp on and a cd of nursery rhymes or classical....it was great as i think he thought somone was in the room with him so stopped getting so upset...he has slept through pretty much from 8 weeks..apart from when teething...oo is she teething by the way only because ds did get his first tooth at 5mths but i tend to find its the coming up of tooth rather than the cutting that causes the trauma and upset...take care

hunkermunker · 15/01/2005 22:12

I don't leave DS to cry - he's 9 months and sometimes does some random shouty bits, not crying - if he starts sobbing, he gets stroked, patted or picked up.

He's very good at going to bed, partly because we established a good bedtime routine early on (bath, story (of the 'that's not my...' variety!), feed then bed) and he also has an ugly bear light show (the VTECH one from Mothercare) which plays quiet music, nature sounds and projects a light onto the ceiling.

He now thrashes about and gets cross if I don't put him in his cot when he's tired.

But, and this is a big but, this also works well because DS is a very good baby. I don't follow a strict routine with him food and sleepwise - he has three meals a day, some breastmilk in the morning, at night and once or twice during the day and he drinks quite a lot of water from whichever cup is clean(!) - a miracle in itself when I think how hard it was to get him to take a bottle for when I went back to work!

I am extremely lucky and I don't want you all to hate me for having a baby who sleeps, eats and smiles, so if I tell you that when AF pays a visit to my poor endometriosis-riddled body, it's like labour itself, will that help? It's true, btw

Chandra · 15/01/2005 22:38

Melon... I don't think you are cruel, you are just trying to do the best for your baby. Many people find it horribly cruel to leave a young baby crying but that's just another style of parenting. We put Ds in his own room when he was 3 weeks old, he cried 20m the first day, 10 the second and 5 the third, from then on he went happily to sleep without problems. I cried behind his door all that time as well. And some people really thought it was very cruel of me. However... I have seen the children of some of these peopel crying every night because they don't want to go to sleep, I have seen them holding hands with their 3 yrs olds because they are so anxious about being left alone in a bedroom to go to sleep on their own. So in conclussion I get that my DS cried for the total of 45 min in the space of 3 nights, their children are still crying after 3 yrs. I don't think I was the cruel mother anymore.

Unless there's a health problem I would think it's kinder to teach them to go to sleep on their own, specially before she can experience what is called separation anxiety. However, if you are finding it especially difficult, you can try to go back to her room if she is crying, and path her, hug her, tell her how much you love her and explain to her that you can't pick her up because she is supposed to sleep in her room. (she won't understand a word but if she is ablee to notice that you are confident about what you say, eventually she will learn that you are around, ready to come back if she needs you but... that she is not coming out of the cot).

If you try any of these things please remember that the most important part is to be consistant, if you let her cry for 20 min just to pick her up after that, the problem would be worse as she would have learned that the longer and harder she cries you would eventually pick her up. If you are not sure of what your are doing it's better to leave it, how could you convince her that she is safe sleeping in her own room if can't sensee that you are confident about it? Best of luck, do what you consider is best, be it to ler her cry for some minutes or to rock her until she falls asleep. You are the mother you know what style works best for you and your child.

hercules · 16/01/2005 13:31

Yes, I think it is cruel. CC is meant for older children and should be done at much shorter intervals. I thought that it wasnt actually possible to teach them what you want them to learn at this young age anyway. Even ferber says they have to much older.

lockets · 16/01/2005 13:34

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hercules · 16/01/2005 13:47

I read on another thread your dd has excema. COuld it be she's crying because it's bothering her? The crying will also make her hot which will cause her excema to bother her more possibly?

Slinky · 16/01/2005 15:22

I tried posting on this earlier but had problems - so I'll try again.

I am a fan of "CC" - but I wouldn't even consider it for a baby under 9/10 months old. In fact, the likes of "Ferber" etc recommend that it isn't carried out on babies younger than 6 months.

As an aside, CC suggests that you leave them for a MAXIMUM of 5 minutes, gradually increasing to 10 mins etc.

4 months is still VERY young, and she may just need a cuddle.

Slinky · 16/01/2005 15:25

(I am having so many problems posting on this thread - so I'll try again for the 4TH TIME )

I am a fan of CC - but I certainly wouldn't consider it for a baby younger than 9/10 months old. In fact, even the likes of "Ferber" etc recommend that it is not carried out before the age of 6 months.

As an aside, CC suggests that you leave them for a MAXIMUM of 5 minutes, and gradually increasing to 10, then 15 minutes over a period of time.

4 months is still VERY young and your DD may be just wanting a cuddle, some company etc.

Slinky · 16/01/2005 15:26

And now it's posted twice

moondog · 16/01/2005 15:31

Melon-wouldn't say that you are cruel, but the idea is..

moondog · 16/01/2005 15:31

Melon-wouldn't say that you are cruel, but the idea is..

dinny · 16/01/2005 22:09

ds is 4 months old and I have to say I would never let him get distressed. just back after weekend away and ds unsettled/v tired - wouldn't go to sleep in his cot afer bath/feed so I just lay on our bed with him and fed him into blissful oblivion much nicer IMO

kinderbob · 17/01/2005 06:36

In answer to your question - no she will not learn, she is much too young. Give her a cuddle.

I'm with Ghosty, I only have one, so no controlled comparison, but I have never left ds to cry, and he likes his bed.

A few cuddles now could save you literally months (or years) of issues.

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