Seriously - She's going to have to go to boarding school ! dd 7.5 is driving me insane !

[LucyLamb]

So - my dd - now 7.5 has always been a feisty little thing - and the last 6 months she has been a bit of a nightmare - but today really takes the biscuit ! She had us up at about 6.30 and has not stopped screaming and shouting at us ALL day !!

DH and I are both feeling a bit under the weather and very stressed out with work - and unfortunately we don't have any family locally to take the pressure off us at all - so we are really feeling it badly today !

Are all 7.5 year old girls like this or have I got one with a problem ?? DH is convinced there is something "wrong" with her !

So - here is an example of her behaviour !

She brought her scooter inside last night - and this mroning started scooting round and round the dining room table at speed - she banged into the sideboard a couple of times and knocked a chunk of wood out of one of the doors - so first of all I tell her to be careful - at which she shrieks "Noooooo - leave me alone - I can do what I want !" at very loud volume ! So I pointed out that actually she couldn't do what she wanted and if she wouldn't be careful I would put her scooter outside ! Cue a mammoth screaming fit - she hates me, it's not fair etc etc. - at which point dh says she has to go to her bedroom - she refuses and continues screaming and shouting. DH then starts shouting back and telling her she must go to her room - she refuses and eventualy he chases her upstairs and into her room - she is now screaming and shrieking furiously ! He closes her door and walks into our room and sits on the bed. She then comes out of her room screaming like a banshee - hits him and slams our bedroom door behind her !

Sorry this is so dull - are you still with me ?

He tells her she must stay in her room and be silent for 5 mins before she may come out - 35 mins later she is still screaming and shouting and the 5 mins have not even started !

Eventually she calms down and comes out of her room and eats breakfast. She is then calmish for all of about 20 mins and then she is off again about something else - I can't even remember what - but she just seems to be in a foul foul mood and spoiling for an argument at every point !

We have had an issue of her being bullied at school lately, and she is actually changing schools in September - partly becasue of the bullying - so she probably does seem unsettled - BUT........

I have been re-reading "How to listen..." and starting to try out some of the stuff on her - which was beginning to work - but dh is of the old school "kids will do what I say" mentality. I have discussed with our GP and he has said that he thinks her reactions are a little odd - but give her the summer to see if she gets over the bullying etc and if no improvement will refer her to Ed Pych/Behavious person.

Don't know what to do really !! Are they all like this - or is mine odd ?

it doesn't sound that unusual to me

Really ??

It just seems so out of control - she can't control herself at all !!

I forgot to say that all the time she was screaming in her room she was shouting "I am being good" "I am being good" "Let me come out" without apparently understanding that actually she was still making a hell of a noise ! DH asked her if she knew what silence was and she continued to shriek "I am silent I am silent !!!"

Oh God - maybe it's me !!

Sounds normal behaviour, I think possibly the way your DH is reacting is making things worse (forgive me, sure he's not meaning to). Making her go to her room and THEN adding on to that consequence, that she has then stay there and be silent for five minutes; that's too much and he's setting her up to fail. He's trying to control her too much. It's up to her whether she's making a noise or not, and of course she's only 7, she's got to let off steam...why does he want to control what she does to that extent?

I think perhaps with situations like the scooter you could be clearer with her.

It shouldn't BE indoors if she can do damage with it; simple as that. Make it easier for her by being clearer with rules.

I think the MAIN thing you can do for her is sit down with your DH and agree a strategy...if you're open to 'how to talk' stuff and your dh is much more old school then I think that could be a big reason that she's unsettled, along of course with the bullying.

I say go with your approach - and it's probably up to you to educate your DH a bit.

I wouldn't medicalise this personally - she sounds utterly normal, just needing more consistency and to settle from her situation at school.

I think by 7.5 fewer dc have these sort of show downs but many still do. Your dh and I need a consistent approach to how you are going to deal with "loosing it" and also try to work out what nips it in the bud. My eldest was never like that but my 2nd still is at 6 but it's getting less frequent.

DD is same age, and recently we have had some discussions about what it means to 'get up on the wrong side of the bed' when she wakes in a bad mood for no reason.

Can you set her up with some appropriate activities? I had been unhappy with dd for constantly 'pestering', but reprimanding only seemed to make it worse, and things escalated. But, when (for example) I set her up with her new Harry Potter book (and a dictionary), she couldn't have been quieter/happier reading and looking up unfamiliar words on her own. Maybe your dd could use some similar help in how to occupy herself when the two of you are 'unavailable'.

I also think when you're tired/stressed, children sense it and can become extra needy/demanding. It helps with dd if we make a plan for an activity (going to the park, taking a walk, watching a film together with popcorn) at a specific time ('at 4:00 we'll have our special time together'), and then she doesn't keep trying to drag me into her activities. Somehow she calms down when she knows 'our' time together is 'in the schedule'.

My dcs seem to be learning better by when they apologise they have to say what it is that they did/said that was wrong and why it was wrong. None of them liked this rule change at all, somehow I think it has made them have to accept that shouting/nasty words/hitting is wrong because it hurts/is rude/etc

Thanks for that - so it's normal then !

I don't know much about kids and she's my only one - her friends seem a lot less explosive - but maybe their mums play it down, or maybe their dh's don't wind the kids up - who knows ?

Agree that dh's approach does make her worse - much much worse - but is it too much to expect a 7.5 year old to show some self restraint when asked to be quiet because mummy has a headache etc ? When do they learn to be less self-centred ?

Really not sure I can do this much more - am already on Fluoexitine - and doc says she is my main stressor due to her challenging behaviour. I wish I could just walk away a lot of the time - it's too hard, too difficult.....

both mine go through phases like this - seems to correspond to a growth/developmental spurt in my very unscientific opinion. i tend to look at sleep - mine need ideally about 10 hours at least, more if school very busy. plus knock out sugar as far as possible and see if additives etc are related.orange cordial for example turn mine into wailing banshees. i am a bit old school my self - of the lots of fresh air , one on one time with parents, excercise and sleep. it does sound normal - though at the very trying end of the normal range! mine are 4 and 10 btw

she sounds like my 12 year old DD.

Be consistent and firm. She sounds like she will always try to push you but just give her an instruction and do not give her someone to argue with.

FWIW I would have removed the scooter from her and she wouldn't have it back until she behaved herself.

She may be taking her frustration out on you about being bullied.

Do you think it has become a power battle between the two of you?

Can I ask why you let her go on her scooter in the house in the first place and then ask her to calm it down? Sounds like mixed messages to me.

I would have said "No scooting in the house. End of." and then taken the scooter outside and locked it in a shed.

Yes yes definitely a power battle !!! She absolutley knows what buttons to press !

I think there is a lot in this thing about not reacting at a "child level" and remaining as the adult. I am not very good at this - very short fuse at the moment I'm afraid ! Stressed at work and this is making life at home very fraught ! Doc says I need to make time for me - My how I laughed !!!

Scooter now out of reach in garage - will be there for at least a week !

Right - back to the book then !!

DD is an only child also, so they definitely look to parents to occupy/entertain - especially at the weekend when there is no routine. The fact that you are all together - so it appears that you are available to her - is confusing. You are physically present, but not available.

Try not to treat her as a pest (especially difficult when you're unwell), but help her find a constructive way of occupying herself until you/dh can give her some time/attention/interaction. Otherwise it really can become a battle of the wills, ime.

Sorry to hear you're finding things so hard. In that case I really do think even more important for you and DH to agree on a consistent parenting strategy;

one that involves him butting out and leaving her alone a bit more, IMO!

Don't worry about her - she will get there, she's still very young and she WILL develop empathy, etc; you don't need to MAKE her develop it. If you and DH are kind and thoughtful to eachother, and to her, THAT'S how she will learn best and quickest, to be that way herself.

I'd say be VERY clear in her boundaries for now, impose a consequence if you have to but do not let your DH try to control her too much because it's worse than pointless.

And totally agree with Earlybird about making sure you 'direct' her a bit if she's being pesky...basically like distraction for a toddler, but amended a bit for an older child.

And many, many children are explosive and feisty, and hard work....some of your friends may not have it as hard as you do but I feel it will be great for your DD's future that she's been allowed to be herself within boundaries, of course!

MoreSpamThanGlam - I'm afraid at 7am on a Sunday I was still half asleep in bed and she started scooting before I came downstairs ! Had I been downstairs I would have stopped it straight off. I wasn't that bothered until she knocked a chunk out of the sideboard - then I drew the line !

Don't really think that was a mixed message - although the scooter won't be in the house again !

Also, if you are stressed and unwell and need some quiet time - can your dh not take her out for a bit? Go to the park and swing, or kick a ball.

You do sound as if you are 'blaming' her a bit for adding to your stress. She is just being a child, and children want attention. If she can't get positive attention, she'll probably provoke negative attention.

Also, weekends can be the most challenging time ime so perhaps it is a good idea to make one or two 'loose' plans so that you don't have hours stretching ahead of you with no relief in sight.

totally agree with that post, Earlybird

very wise words

Agree with everything said by previous posters:

letting her do an activity indoors that can't really be done safely/quietly indoors is setting her up to fail; should be firm rules on this from the start- if she then brings it indoors against prohibition you just calmly confiscate it (for the day/week whatever) without any threats or negotiating

screaming and shouting still normal for lots of children of this age- just ignore and calmly take her upstairs (try to avoid undignified chasing)

if she shouts once in her room, don't stand outside shouting about her shouting iyswim; just ignore it until she calms down- and then let her out; but if someone is outside shouting at her to calm down, she'll never calm down

Ds is the same age, and we had pretty well exactly the same scenario last night (barring the scooter). He does seem to be a lot more hyper and aggressive now than a few years ago. Afraid I remember similar scenes from my own childhood And db was quite spectacular. But we have both grown up to be respectable and law-abiding citizens- and both happily married.

With ds I have found a lot of it is he is quite sensitive, so he picks up on any stress that is going. And if he feels rejected by either of us, it frightens him and makes him worse. He doesn't mind firm discipline at all, but he is terrified by 'go away, I can't cope with you today'.

Earlybird has brilliant suggestions for overcoming that rejection by timetabling activities.

Hmmmmm - it's difficult. She definitely is my main stressor as she is very difficult even at the best of times. Hopefully getting her away from the bullies in Sept may help a bit - but I am not naive enough to think the grass will be that much greener at the new school.

I know children want attention, she usually gets a lot - and normally we have stuff on at the weekedn - but as dh and I are both unwell and stressed we cancelled our plans for this one - hoping to chill a bit and recover from a very stressful week. Obviously a stupid hope !

The thing is that we have no help and no escape from her - I know lots of people don't - so I'm not really moaning - just saying it's hard and it's bringing me down very low. Surely by this age she should be OK to entertain herself for half an hour ??

Funny thing is if I want her to come out with me she will be absolutely engrossed in a book or film and won't want to come out !!

God it's hard !!!

I find things work best when I announce upfront to dd how things will be. For example: 'Mummy is very tired, so we're going to have a quiet morning doing things on our own, and then after lunch we'll go for a walk, and an ice cream'. That way, she knows exactly what the day will look like and can occupy herself accordingly.

And here's another fact about my dd (not sure if it's true of yours), if I treat her as if she's a pain in the *rse, she'll live up to that expectation. If I can be loving (while satisfying my own needs for rest/quiet, etc), more often than not, she can rise to the occasion. (And it has to be said, we also have more telly and/or computer time on the weekends. )

I don't have relatives around to help either, and am a single parent. I have in the past hired a babysitter to take dd out for the day when I have been unwell and needed some quiet time to rest/relax. When I'm desperate for some downtime, it's a good way of getting it while ensuring that dd is looked after.

My dd1 was an only child until 5.5 I found the best help was becoming good friends with a family who had an only child of the same age so we could still do playdates at the weekends!!! TBH with a 5.5 year gap it still is a bit like having an only child as the little 3 are very close in age.

It's true that as she gets older, she may become more empathetic. But in the meantime, can you set the example and also spend some time thinking about how to 'get into' her world? Don't expect her to 'get into' your world for very long at 7.5. (Sometimes I'm pretty good at this, and others I don't get it right either - definitely a work in progress.)

Also suggest you start thinking about making plans now for the Bank Holiday weekend - playdate, soft play with a pal, out to a film, picnic in the park etc.

You don't have to take the scooter to the shed for a week do you? You've already punished the scooter riding by sending her to her room.

Wipe the slate clean.

Call a 'family council'. Involve her in drawing up some house rules. Allow her to ask questions - dcs v.g. at picking up on your waveringness. DS1 asks 'let's write down exactly when I'm allowed on the computer.'

It all sounds a bit stressy.

Why don't you concentrate on not saying NO for a week or so. Stick up the rules. Give her some responsibilities. Find opportunities to praise her. Try to like her a bit more.

Mine all push against the boundaries a lot of the time. Don't give up is par for the course I think.

Also - I am hyper vigilant at ensuring I don't 'explode' at dd for minor infractions, when I am generally on edge/upset due to other things going in my life. Her behaviour can be 'the straw that breaks the camel's back', but it is down to me to manage my own issues without 'venting' in her direction.

My parents did this alot, and it felt (and was) unfair.

agree with ahundredtimes; don't double punish for the scooter incident; she's already been to her room for that, plus it was half the parenting responsibility anyway TBH, it shouldn't have been in the house so don't punish for your mistakes...

Agree that you may not have made it clear to her what you wanted from her; did you tell her you and her dad needed to rest and she needed to entertain herself? Did you plan and set up some activities to make it possible for her to succeed in offering what you wanted?

I think perhaps you are expecting a little much of her...

also, you and DH are a team and can give each other that break that you need from her; OK, it means you don't get time as a couple and that is hard, I don't deny it...lots of us have that issue though so you're not alone.

It does read a little as if, because she's feisty and hard work, you're kind of making her the problem....I think at the bottom of it all is a couple of things; you being unsupported as parents (which may not be easy to remedy, I know) and you and DH communicating about the parenting.