Suitable punishment for 4 year old DD - who seems oblivious!

[Lowfat]

DD (4)got hold of my nail varnish last night (see housekeeping thread) and 'decorated' her wall and carpet.

She was due to get £5 today for earning all her sickers this week, with no crosses, and DH was going to take her out for a long bike ride. She has lost both of these - she was initially upset as she want to buy her self some new pyjamas while out with her dad, but in just half an hour seems not to be bothered any more.

DH and I are trying to think what to do to show her the severity of her crime, in terms of the carpet is ruined. We've told her how cross we are but she just looks through us when we speak to her.

Cant do too much in terms of no telly on or keeping her in, as she has a little brother too who would suffer as well.

Next move is to take her favorite music away in her bedroom, but that too seems to have had little impact. Can I have some help please.

Are you sure she's really not bothered? Children sometimes put on an act to save face - even little ones.

I think nail varnish is quite tempting for 4yos, as is decorating walls. Of course you need to make it clear this was A Very Bad Idea but I don't think you should pile punishment on punishment - one punishment for one crime in my book.

I feel so disapointed, I was already to make a big song and dance about 24 stickers and no crossing out and this has happened. We had pretty much planned the day around celebrating her success.

Dont want to keep going on at her, but she just seems so 'not bovered' that it makes me cross.

I know, it is very frustrating when they seem so careless. But an escalating battle of punishment will just make everyone sad.

What does she say when you ask her why she did it?

Does she understand why it's such a big deal?

Oh, and is the carpet ruined? Won't it come out with nail varnish remover? She can't have covered the whole carpet with one bottle can she?

make her help you clean it so that she can see what the consequences are! my dd is 4 and loves making mess after much fighting between her and her dad over the matter which involved her telling him 'its okay mummy will clean it up for us later'

i made her do some of the cleaning this helped her realise that it was not that simple and it took mummy a long time to sort these things out and as result she doesnt seem to empty out all her clothes all over the floor, throw her empty yoghurt cartons anywhere and be so laxidaiscal when it comes to spilling her cereal,

She earned the £5 so I think she should still have that. You are moving the boundaries. If you keep doing that she won't bother trying to earn them any more.

If this was the first time with the nail varnish there is no way she could have envisaged the damage. Obviously she should know how serious the damage is and often the best way to deal with this is to show how upsetting it is for you. The punishment should be along the lines of 'Dad doesn't feel happy about going for the bike ride now because he is still upset'

I'm a great believer in them knowing the consequences beforehand, otherwise life just seems to them to be one long punishment when they didn't even know things they were doing were wrong in the first place. Now you can tell her that opening nail varnish is wrong and she can expect to lose privileges if she does it again. This way she knows in advance what will happen and it will be her choice to not do it.

Why are you escalating the punishments? YOu've punished her already. This seems to be more about you getting the tearful reaction you want than her learning the lesson she needs to learn.

I agree with ellingwoman - you can't take away the money she earned for something unrelated. Plus, carpet and wall covered in nail varnish - nightmare for us; pretty pattern for her. If you've never told her not to, she won't not do it on her own...

I think the punishment you've given her is enough.
To be honest, I don't think that what she has done is that bad. Messy and annoying but in her eyes just experimental.
I think the taking two things away is a bit much, but then I am not really into punishment.
I prefer to tell them what they've done wrong and leave it at that.
Each to their own though!
She probably is more sorry than she is letting on.

Agree with others that if you've never told her not to do it, then how does she know it's wrong? As someone else said it's prettying the place up to her or she might only have seen the patterns she could make.
"the severity of her crime" She hasn't hurt anyone. She just needs guiding to show her that it's not a good idea. Talk to her. Certainly not deserving of the ott punishments that you are dreaming up.
So she's 'good' all week (hence the stickers, I presume)and with one inoffensive (to her) act all her good work is undone That doesn't seem a great idea.
Also, Im a bit at a 4yo getting £5 a week.
But aside from all that I think that you should keep your nail varnish etc out of a 4yo reach (too tempting) if you don't want this kind of thing to happen. I also think you should speak to her about it, let her know that you know that she didn't mean any harm and ask her to help you clean it up and 'wouldn't it be nice if we all helped to keep the house nice together' sort of thing.

Mmm I would be cross if my ds had done this but I wouldn't punish him in the ways you are suggesting. In her eyes she was just 'helping' and 'decorating', she had no idea that she's wrecking your home! I would just do as the others have said and talk to her about it being inappropriate and not to do it again!

Poor thing - punishment much too harsh IMO.

She's 4, been good all week and for just one wrong thing has lost her reward and a wonderful day out with dad. She will soon learn those stickers mean bugger all.

She had 3 stickers to go to get her £5 and I would have helped her get them by finding her jobs to do (she also gets them for finishing meals as she is the worlds worst eater), so technically she had'nt earned it but I would have found ways to as it would have been her first week getting £5 instead of a material reward such as toy/comic/sweet.

It is not the first incident with nail varnish so she does know better. Both times she has actually climbed and searched as I have my nail varnish's high-up in a tall closed basket. Last time there was only a small blob spilled on the bed clothes which I have shown her wont come out with washing, and she is reminded of it each time we use the bedding - so she is aware of the consequences.

What I dont understand is the first time she did because she wanted to out some on. This time she did'nt even put it on. And although she did'nt cover the whole carpet there are streaks and blobs everywhere so I cant cover it all with a rug etc. The carpet is quite deep pile so it's not coming out, but some hairspray has broken the stains down and with regualr scrubbing I am hopping it will break down.

When asked why she did she just said she wanted to look at it, but then could'nt put it back.

She has been told she will not get her £5 now, as naughty behaviour leads to a crossed out sticker. And she has been told the bike ride has been cancelled. But I have not done anything else and we have moved on. She is now working on the sticker chart for next week as we always start and end on Sundays, and has already put all her washing away, used the dustpan and brush to clear up her brothers discarded lunch, and is currently helping daddy do some gardening.

FWIW Juule, the £5 which we will be working towards next week again will be given to her in 50p pieces and we will using it as a learning tool, spend some save some etc. She is hoping to get pyjamas again next week.

Send her round here please Lowfat!!

Perhaps she could teach my teenagers how to put washing away and clear up snack debris because they take no notice of me

I know, she is trying so hard to be good andhelpful and impress us, she has eaten all her lunch, drawn us pictures and now keeps saying 'I know, I could.....'. So as soon as she gets all 24 stcikers again she will get £5. :-)

But if she carries on for today I do have a comic lurking in the cupboard which she will get at bedtime.

Speechless

Juule, we had already sid no to £5 wheh I posted, to go back on that would confuse her as well.

I know what we have done may seem harsh but She is quite grown up for 4 and I feel we have handled this with the same application and attitude as other situations.

We are quite strict parents but trust me as I am sitting here I am watching her play in the garden having a tea party with her fairies and she is no worse off for the loss of £5 and a bike ride.

She is over the moon that he has already earned 4 stickers for all her help today and I think she has learned her lesson.

does she really understand the value of 5 pounds? My four year old wouldn't have a clue.

From your posts it looks as though she is being punished for not being visibly upset as much as she is for the original incident.

She's lost her £5/pyjamas, her bike ride with her dad, and on top of that you are/were considering taking away her favourite music too. Would this all have happened if she'd thrown herself to the floor in tears and spent the day sniffling and weeping?

Of yes, she is quite clued up on money, which is why we decided to do this.

She could'nt believe when I bought her a dress in H&M that it actualy cost just (£2.99) 50p more that a comic she wanted.

And she often asks to pay for odd things in shops it's her fav thing to do at the moment!

Coppertop - have you read the whole thread?

She lost £5 and a bike ride. She was going to buy herself the PJ's with the £5, and I was considering the music which has not happened.

Instead she spent 45 minutes watching me scrub her carpet.

This is yet another example of the unrealistic expectations that people have of very small children. 4 is very small - hardly any experience of life, and certainly no understanding of things from an adult's point of view. Why was the nail varnish where she could get it?