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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

It's 8.40pm here and 3yr old still messing about...

44 replies

bergentulip · 04/05/2008 19:44

What would you do? I am sitting in the study because my darling DS1 is, an hour and forty minutes after first putting him in bed, shouting for me, banging on his door, waking up DS2(5mths), generally being a nuisance.

My tactics of being stern, angry, firm, not talking to him, just putting him back in bed, are just being met with laughter and smiles..... ...
What do I dooooooo???? Need advice, because at the moment I feel angry and shouty and it will not help!!!

I have resorted to putting 5mth old on my bed so he at least is in a quiet-ish room. This has been getting gradually worse over the last couple of weeks, I suppose really since it started being light at 7pm..... heeeellllpppp.....

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

thehouseofmirth · 04/05/2008 19:46

Is he actually tired? Have you tried blackout blinds? I close all ours while DS is in bath with DH so when he gets out he thinks it's dark!

posieflump · 04/05/2008 19:49

an hour and 40 minutes?
so you put him to bed at 6pm?
maybe it is too early now that the evenings are lighter and perhaps he can hear people having BH fun outside?

posieflump · 04/05/2008 19:50

oops just read the thread title, his bedtime is 6pm then
I guess just say no, firmly and taing him back repeatedly is all you can do I'm afriad

Original poster

bergentulip · 04/05/2008 19:50

no. If you see the first sentence it says - it's 8.40 here.... I'm in Holland, so 7pm.

OP posts:

posieflump · 04/05/2008 19:51

we used to say the 1st time 'no, it's bedtime', the next time ' bedtime' and carry back to bed, the times after that just carry straight back to bed, no eye contact etc
Some people use stairgates at the door but I always thought that would involve too much noise with banging etc

posieflump · 04/05/2008 19:51

does he still nap?

Original poster

bergentulip · 04/05/2008 19:53

It's just so draining. I'm not used to it!!

And from 7 til whenever he finally gives in, it's the constant 'I need a poo', 'I've done a poo in my nappy' (!!@&*£&£££"%!), 'I need cold milk', 'I need warm milk', 'I need my blanket' etc etc etc.... I have learned to ensure he all those things sorted and out of the way before I leave him, but still he manages to come up with something! It has got to the point that he is getting into bed with a blanket, two teddies, two beakers of milk, a hot water bottle(!)....

OP posts:

Original poster

bergentulip · 04/05/2008 19:55

Yes, he does nap.

I thought that maybe we could get rid of the nap, and yes, I see what you're thinking, make him more tired at night.... but, the problem is, he gets to about 4pm and is completely zonked and cannot make it any later, no matter what I do. I'll try and keep him occupied, or let him just watch tellie for a bit til tea time, but then he just falls asleep, almost mid sentence!! And if I try and wake him up after his 1.5hrs, he is unbelievably tetchy.

He must be in the interim phase. Does/Does not need a nap,.....

OP posts:

Original poster

bergentulip · 04/05/2008 19:57

I guess that would then be a follow up question. How do I get rid of his nap?, because like posie suggests, this is most likely what is affecting his going to bed routine.....

OP posts:

posieflump · 04/05/2008 19:57

oh that is a horrible stage
does he drop off in the car , if yes maybe take him for a drive after lunch so the nap is brought forward
you've probably already tried that though

Original poster

bergentulip · 04/05/2008 20:02

I could try the driving thing, it would work. But, I'd have to do that at about 11am. So, rather than his usual nap time of about 12pm til 1.30pm, it would all be an hour earlier, and perhaps he'd be a little more tired by 7pm.

Him falling asleep at 4pm is when I am really, really trying to keep him up all day, and then i definitely do not let him nap longer than half an hour. The next 2 are AWFUL til bedtime, he's such a grumpbag, but better that than him being even more full of beans than currently!

oooohh...... it's just gone quiet in there..... good sign. Right, my shoulders can relax now and I can stio clenching my jaw(!)

OP posts:

Original poster

bergentulip · 04/05/2008 20:03

stio stop!

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fishie · 04/05/2008 20:04

yes horrible. ds is just 3 and does not have naps while with childminder (4 days a week) and does when he is with me.

he is just being taken away for bedtime by dh having had a 2 hour nap at lunchtime. cannot think how we would have managed without but it does make him do to sleep so late. cm has exciting other children and activities so can get him past the nap quite easily, i just collect an exhausted little thing. that is rather refreshing as he has always been very late to sleep.

can you try that, half the week nap, half no nap?

Original poster

bergentulip · 04/05/2008 20:08

Well, it's a little similar to you Fishie here, in that he has kindergarten three times a week, and twice it starts at 12.45, til 3.30, so on those days he'll not have the lunchtime nap. But, that tends to be when he then falls asleep almost standing up by late afternoon.....

Saying that, he is most definitely now asleep. Completely quiet in there. Maybe I can actually go keep my DH company for a bit....

Okay, next question. How the hell do I transport the sleeping 5 month old off my bed into his own cot without waking him??????

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fishie · 04/05/2008 20:12

when we are going to parents for sunday lunch or similar we drive around a bit at 11am to induce a short kip. can you do that before dropping off at kindergarten? hopefully he will be happy to get there and not grumpy from short sleep.

also having a shower wakes ds up a bit when he comes home with no nap. i just take him in with me.

bossybritches · 04/05/2008 20:22

Maybe make his nap time just one hour- to ensure he is WELL tired? (but hopefully not too horrible in that "misery hour" before bedtime?)

Also I'd cut out the "I need drinks" lark , it is just another form of delaying. Give him a last drink of water when he brushes his teeth, & say firmly "no more, it's bedtime" Let him choose which cuddlies/blankets he wants (surely he doesn't need a hottie??) but again say that is it.

Difficult I know but if you keep up the routine & don't vary it he'll soon realise you mean business & he'll give up out of boredom & relax so the natural tiredness will take over.

Chooster · 04/05/2008 20:28

When my Ds1 was dropping his daytime naps I just brought everything forward a bit. So dinner, bath and bed was all just quite a bit earlier. Some nights he was even in bed at 5.30pm!!! But he was so tired he went off really easily. It does mean some early starts in the morning as he would rarely sleep past 6am if he'd gone to bed so early but with a 5 month old I doubt you are having many lie ins anyway . I does mean you get some great long evenings without DS1 running around. Then as he gets more used to being without a nap you can stretch his bed time back out again...

Pitchounette · 04/05/2008 20:47

Message withdrawn

Original poster

bergentulip · 04/05/2008 20:52

Thanks. Some great suggestions. I like the idea of putting DS1 to bed a bit earlier on the days he has not napped, at say, 11am or so.

I think that's what has to be done, a combination of all that's been suggested

force him to fall asleep at about 11 in the morning, perhaps with a drive in the car
stop indulging all his wims just before bed. I know why he does it, but sometimes he just seems easier to get whatever he wants so I can ship him back to bed quicker. But, MUST be harsher and stop him trying to push his limits
with no nap, put him to bed at 6pm rather than 7, and deal with the early mornings for a bit.

Thanks! Some good stuff there, hopefully it'll work and this pattern will be broken.

(yeah, I know, hot water bottle seems mad, doesn't it? I made the mistake of making one once about a month ago because his bed was cold and he was moaning and saying he wanted to get into my bed.... now he wants one every night!)

OP posts:

collision · 04/05/2008 20:56

I would do a sticker chart which lasts for about 3 weeks (or else it costs a fortune!) and he gets a sticker for every night he goes to bed without a fuss. Give it to him in the morning with lots of praise. At the end of 3 weeks he gets a small present if he has enough stickers.

Make sure he is tired. Run him ragged round the park in the afternoon and stop his nap.

UniversallyChallenged · 04/05/2008 21:02

Oh this is encouraging - though i was the only one wanting to scream! Am sat at the top of the stairs, laptop on knee, having tried -

busy busy keeping him going all day
no nap or even 40 winks
big bubbly bath with lavender oil in to calm him at 6.30pm
stories, cuddle ,kiss, prayer "night nights" at 7.15pm
putting back to bed after his MUST DO A WEE ploy
firmly putting back, no talking
even firmer putting back no eye contact X 5
Warning of a smack next time

This is the SAME routine i have been having for about 3 months. Am so sick of it. NOTHING WORKS Even tried Horlicks but he hates it!

juuule · 04/05/2008 21:42

Let him fall asleep on the settee? Lie him down and tell him that if he gets up he will have to go to bed. Ours were usually asleep within the hour around that age and were quiet until they were. Sometimes they just don't like to be on their own. They grow out of it.

thehouseofmirth · 04/05/2008 22:31

juuleI wasgoing to say that. It sounds like the delaying tactics are more to do with ensuring you keep coming back to him than necessarily delaying going to sleep and I think 3 is an age where this happens. I have always stayed with my DS until he drifts off and luckily it usually only takes a matter of minutes though I appreciate with a baby aswell that's not always so easy. Does he have a nightlight? Could you choose a special one together that might reassure him? Or what about recording some stories on to a tape and leaving that to play as he goes to sleep?

onwardandupward · 05/05/2008 10:30

Sit with him while he falls asleep? Just read your book quietly or meditate or sing to him gently or whatever suits.

And I think it's more important to read our children's cues of tiredness or lack of tiredness than having a "bedtime"

GillL · 05/05/2008 19:57

I'm having the same problems with dd and it's been going on for a year or more so I really sympathise with you. We used to just ignore her and let her cry. Within a few days she'd be back to going to sleep quietly on her own, but now it wakes up her 8 month old brother so it's not an option. She doesn't have a set bed time as such but we normally put her up to bed at about 8pm. She normally messes about and calls us for various reasons like drinks, food, more stories etc. She can be doing this for hours (sometimes til 10:30pm regardless of when she went to bed) and it's really frustrating. Sorry I couldn't give you any advice. I'll be watching this thread with interest.

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