Teaching a baby manners?

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Picked up my 16 month old ds (an only child)from nursery today. One of the carers told my that my ds is turning into a bit of a handful as he always has to be first to do everything. He'll push other kids (including older ones)out of the way to be first ourside to play or first to be fed. Some of them end up tearful as a consequence.

If he's kept waiting (which they are doing deliberately to try and teach him to be patient) he starts crying in protest.

I know he is a very active boy, into everything, is very phsysical, and loves his grub too.

My opinon is he's just really keen to do stuff and he's too young to be taught any kind of manners. We can't even get him to say "mummy" or "daddy" yet, so i'm not convinced there's much that can be done to teach him the importance of being patient yet. I'm more than happy for nursery to try, but I'm not sure if there's anything we can do at home?

Other - sorry

I don't believe a child this age can be taught any manners, and I think it's horrendous that the nursery should make him wait on purpose.
However, I would be mortified if my dd was being pushed around and made to cry by another child, more so if the parents thought this to be no big deal and didn;t want to work with the nursery to address the issue.

What if it was your child being pushed and made to cry?

everyone's child has been pushed and made to cry, and most of our children have pushed someone and made them cry. its life.

i totally think the child should be reprimanded and possibly ignored, while the other child is given lots of attention. i do not think the 16 month old perpetrator should be made an example of and demonised.

i think skimty has summed this up

"There's a difference betweem not accepting certain behaviour and not expecting it. I wouldn't expect any toddler to share, wait patiently etc., it's not in their nature but I wouldn't accept them doing it."

I don't know if anyone read my earlier post but from the POV of a CM who works with 3 other CMs, it certainly is possible to teach a 12mth onward child manners of some sort. We can't possibly be blessed with all well mannered children- they have been taught this by us. All our children collectively from 12mths have sat patiently to wait for snack and drinks, to share toys and not to hurt others through very consistent discipline, not shouting, just a firm no for bad/unwanted behaviour and lots of praise for good behaviour. It really is that simple.

PS I am not suggesting that the children don't try to do the same as the OP, just that they have consequences to deter them, and praise when they do well.

He is not too young to understand it is not OK to push other kids.

a firm no for bad/unwanted behaviour and lots of praise for good behaviour

Good stuff - and this nursery aren't quite doing that, so they need to deal with this better. They can deal with the pushing/shoving immediately, by as tori says, a firm 'no'. Making a one year old baby wait, on purpose, to teach him a lesson in an almost punitive way, is a rubbish way for professional childcarers to go on.

If he has to wait sometimes, that is life and it's their job to help him cope with it by talking, eye contact, distraction; not in this negative way

He is a baby still really. Expectations sound unrealistic to me.

Many one year olds need lots of help to understand why pushing/hitting is wrong. And given what tori describes, the on-going, consistent boundaries, they WILL get there.

Tori32 - it may have been possible in your experience to teach children from 12months manners or to wait or whatever but that does NOT mean it is possible for all children.

My dd was a wonderfully well behaved little girl,lovely manners, very sociable, shared,talked well, never threw a tantrum and generally very easy.

My DS1 was nothing like this. He is a lovely, caring, sociable, polite, wonderful little boy. But he has next to no self control, or certainly didnt at that age. If he wanted something or felt something that was it, he felt it with all his being and it came out and there was nothing anyone could do about it. All the firm 'No's and positive reinforcement in the world couldn't have taught him self control.
He was/is impulsive and passionate and emotional. He has amazing empathy, as a 2 yo the thing he would notice most in books and pictures was people's expressions and whether they were happy/sad/whatever. It is written in his playschool report book that he told his keyworker he was 'sad because X is playing on his own and hasn't got anyone to play with and that makes me feel sad for him'. But if he really wants something or feels sad or angry about something thats all he knows.
On his first day at playschool aged 2.6 all the other children sat down nicely for their snack and drink,my ds1 inhaled his snack and drink and then was off playing, short of pinning him down in his chair there was nothing could be done. He started school in sept at 4.1 and is doing brilliantly but still has a place next to the teacher at carpet time so she can keep his attention otherwise he will be off playing.
None of it is naughtiness or bad parenting or me not bothering to teach him, ITS JUST THE WAY HE IS. I have been drip feeding manners and patience and sharing and turn taking and all the rest in to him since birth (well not quite but ykwim) but a child like him cannot be forced to do be calm, patient, placid and dare I say docile. It is not in him and never will be and I love that about him.
At 16 months I was chasing him round the house rescuing him from the top of wardrobes and window sills, I had to fit an extra harness to both his pushchair and highchair to keep him from escaping and even that didn't really work. I'd have had as much chance of getting him to sit on the floor and eat nicely or line up and take turns as I would have had getting him to read quantum physics in latin.

And I'm sorry if I've gone on a bit but I think unless people have had a child or know a child like him then they really don't understand it. He is such a loving, caring, sensitive little boy. The other day he saw the Wateraid advert and very sadly said to me 'Mummy can we take those children some water'. It upsets me and TBH pisses me off when people have only had or known placid children and assume anything other than this is the parent's or carer's fault and the child is naughty and lacking in discipline when its nothing of the sort.

Rant over!

pesha, great post

and your ds sounds truly adorable

Thank you HG

And he is adorable! People either absolutely adore him or they see the impulsiveness as naughtiness and judge him and me on it Luckily his teachers adore him which has been such a relief to me, I was so worried they wouldn't take the time to understand him. His teacher described him at parent's evening as a 'little ray of sunshine in her class'. This is despite him regularly running off and hiding in the hallway in his first term because he 'wanted to be on his own', it terrified the teacher as she thought she'd lost him!

OP - it really is important with a child like this to have a carer that understnads them so they can find the best way to help them. With my ds1 only a calm, sensitive approach will work, anything else and he gets upset and frustrated and clamps up. I think talking to the nursery and trying to understand what you all expect from him and put in place some strategies to achieve this would be a good idea. And decide what your priorities are. Stopping the aggression to other children is important and something you all need to work on. Making him wait in line, take turns and share seems unnecessary at his age and if they are trying to force all these rules on him it could well prove counter productive and result in a very frustrated and angry little child.

"It's just the way he is" is all well and good, except that there are other kids to think about, those OP's DS is pushing around, frequently to tears. If you were their mother, I bet you would be concerned demand this boy to be restrained with whatever means necessary.

"whatever means necessary" - No I don't think I would want whatever means necessary to be used to restrain this boy. And as a mother of a very sensitive DD I am not just looking at this from the OP's ds's point of view. I think they need to find what does work with him or try an alternative way of doing things that suits this boy and his temperament and current abilities better.

And in no way am I suggesting that because its the way a child is they should be given free reign to run riot. Of course they need to be taught that some things are not acceptable and they need to find the best way to do this for each child. I had to completely change my parenting style with ds1 as what had worked well with DD either had no effect on him or just enraged him more. But it may take months or years of constant reminding and using whatever method is decided to get the child to learn patience. You can constantly remind and remove the child from difficult situations but you cannot expect him to be able to take turns and wait patiently at such a young age if it is simply not in his nature and to do so could well just cause more problems.

My ds had soo much energy and enthusiasm if I had tried to restrain that I think it would have exploded out of him in other, possibly violent, ways.

It may be that this nursery is not the right environment for this child. If they have set rules and procedures that he is simply not able to conform too and they are unable to accomodate his particular personality and needs then perhaps a different nursery or a CM might be better for him?

nice one pesha. my twenty two month old son is exactly the same and I find it arrogant that other people think that they know better and that there must be some shortcomings in my (and by implication the nursery, my husband and his grandparents) parenting because he can't learn manners.

everyone knows that there is a spectrum of behaviour and development, just because something might be unacceptable doesn't mean the child is yet capable of controlling their impulses.

and 'whatever means necessary' is absurd btw. another example of misunderstanding these type of children.

This is not about 'manners'.
This is about hurting other children.

And 'by all means' refers to having a talk, saying "no" repeatedly and staying by his side so he stays in line and doesn't push other kids. Obviously I didn't mean he should be publicly flogged or whatever it was you were thinking of.

i dont think anyone has suggested that a child shouldn't be stopped from hurting other children - my argument is about whether all children can be taught manners at such a young age - something i passionately disagree with.

i do however believe that you should reinforce and model good behaviour, and curtail bad, etc.

there is a big difference between saying 'no' repeatedly and making a child cry by forcing it to subvert its natural exuberance - i obviously minsunderstood 'by any means necessary'.

I don't really think this ia about 'manners' at all - just about the correct way to help a child function in an environment with other children. I feel very lucky to have a calm DS. I have a friend who has the opposite and I do not in any way 'blame' her parenting as Partridge suggests. I would be shocked if people thought that I was somehow a better parent because of the temperament of our children. Indeed, she's probably the better parent because of how well she deals with him.

What would concern me is not the fact that the nursery staff are talking to the OP about the behaviour. I think that if it is causing problems in a social mix then a joint approach is necessary but more that the OP seems to be concerned that her child is being overly criticised for this. As enough people have said this is normal toddler behaviour and while I think boundaries are important to label a child at this age because of not sticking to them seems silly and dangerous.

Totally agree Skimty. They shouldn't be blaming OP for this behaviour.

It's a good idea to try and teach a 16 month old some basic social skills, but they won't get it at that age. Do you really expect a 16 month old to be able to wait patiently and quietly in line until it's his turn, especially if it's a more boisterous child.

That's not to say that I think a boisterous child should be left to do as he pleases until he turns into a nightmare child, but there are much better ways to teach a child than deliberately making him wait until he gets upset. What exactly is that teaching him?

I do agree that he shouldn't be allowed to upset the otehr children, but this is an age old so common thing for children to do I'd expect a nursery and its staff to be experienced in dealing with it efficiently and kindly.

How old are the other children at nursery?