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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

I need collective mumsnet creativity and solutions to a soon to be a potentially very big problem....

111 replies

yurt1 · 26/04/2008 20:27

DS1 has had a compulsion to look over fences for a few years now. As he gets taller (he's 9) he can look over bigger fences.

If you look at my profile you will see a photo taken of him today - he can get his knee higher than shown in the photo so he can get practically over the fence.

The problem is that the roofs of the houses behind that fence are level with it. In other words there's a very big drop behind there. He's severely autistic (non verbal) with absolutely no sense of danger. In between doing this today he's been jumping from bannister to bannister 3 storeys up. (am I spelling storey right?)

So any ideas of what I can do? The fences are at their legal maximum height. Removing the chair just leads to him shifting the trampoline or wendy house or anything he can lay his hands on - which is even more dangerous. Or climbing up from the decking. Last year he was satisfied with a periscope, but last year he didn't have the strength to pull himself up - this year it's viewed as a poor alternative.

He can't quite manage it yet, but give him a few weeks and I think he will. And I then dread to think.......

It's a compulsion so very hard to deal with behaviourally. He doesn't have the language for social stories.

OP posts:

WowOoo · 27/04/2008 10:59

Gosh, what a conundrum.
Cannot suggest anything helpful now but will try to...
Are there organisations/websites that support you? What do they suggest?

As he grows won't he try to peer over anything and come up with more ingenious ways to climb? Could you build a structure in garden with him. (know it's small, but if it contains him, it's his area, keeps him engaged etc..? Saw these large, solid plastic bricks but in States, in a school. Hard to explain them really.

WowOoo · 27/04/2008 11:00

Hippi said what I was thinking far more succintly and yes, meant to say in the middle of garden....!!!

Blu · 27/04/2008 11:08

I woke up in the middle of the night panicking and picturing him tipping himself over the top of the roller-thingy...

Sinking the trampoline and providing portholes might be the way to go...I have seen sunken trampolines covered by removable decking - very impressive...

Can you somehow peg the playhouse to the ground so he can't move it close to the fence? I know moving a chair from the house is so easily done whenyour back is turned, though...

tortoiseSHELL · 27/04/2008 11:18

A climbing frame could be the answer. We have this and the children do love looking over the fences from the top. If you situated it far enough away from the fences then it wouldn't prove a further hazard, and they are fab climbing frames! Ours is a pirate ship atm, but it is sometimes a space rocket, and sometimes a racing car (obv imaginary!) - but it spends a lot of time being a 'look out post' to spy on the neighbours...

tortoiseSHELL · 27/04/2008 11:20

You can also get periscopes or telescopes to attach on which could make it more of a 'watch tower'.

Mercy · 27/04/2008 11:26

Just out of curiousity, what is it that satisfies his compulsion? Is it the climbing, the being able to see over the fence or some sort of physical/emotional sensation?

Original poster

yurt1 · 27/04/2008 11:35

He uses his playhouse in that way totoishell, but it doesn't seem to be enough.

I expect it's the actual angles Mercy- the birds eye view so the way the ground looks from above. I think that's why he does it with the stairs, they look different from above. He loves straight lines, bridges, pylons, washing machines and he loves exploring the angles they make from different vantages.

We could move the stuff - sinking the trampoline is harder as our garden is like rock and we couldn't get an earth mover in there (side passage too narrow). But when we locked away the chairs he just carried the kitchen ones outside.

OP posts:

Original poster

yurt1 · 27/04/2008 11:36

washing machines should of course been washing lines!

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tortoiseSHELL · 27/04/2008 11:45

Could you put the playhouse on a platform of some sort (obviously would need screwing etc), away from the fence, so that he could see over, but not fall over? Combine that with very prickly rose or something and he might just start to prefer the playhouse?

Shitemum · 27/04/2008 11:55

Don't know if anyone else has suggested this but how about drilling lots and lots of spy holes through the fence at different heights but all accessible without climbing. Make them about 4cm across so he can see quite easily through them. You could make some covers for some of them or even put different coloured cellophane over them to vary it.
HTH have no experince of autism so may be completely useless idea.

Original poster

yurt1 · 27/04/2008 12:16

He'd love different coloured portholes, but he'd still love the peering over thing. Seeing things from different perspectives really drives him- he gets very cross if a 'line' is ruined (eg a neighbour opens a window that isn't usually open!) But he spends a lot of time trying to explore views from different angles. I've added a photo of him at our local lighthouse (which he loves) pressed against the glass. He looks down the central bit too and likes to lean over the balcony .

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Blandmum · 27/04/2008 12:19

Original poster

yurt1 · 27/04/2008 12:20

see my 10:17 message MB

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Blandmum · 27/04/2008 12:24

Missed that....was at the gym with a face as red as a baboons arse!

Blandmum · 27/04/2008 12:25

Oh and scouts groups sometimes have them too, might be worth while asking them. DDA and all that.

Fllight · 27/04/2008 12:33

Yurt, I don't know if this might be an option, but years ago I went to see a family who had a cat they were getting rid of. They had about 20 cats actually, don't know why they picked on this one

Anyway their back garden was totally covered with thin green plastic netting. I think it was to stop the cats getting out, not sure, but anyway it didn't cut out the light.
Maybe if you covered the garden with this it might be a deterrent or he might give up, or he might just pull it down, I don't know.

Just a thought. He is a great climber, very impressed here

Fllight · 27/04/2008 12:33

I mean from fence to fence - obviously at the top, like a roof.

ib · 27/04/2008 12:47

Where are you yurt?

I have no experience of autistic children so can't help at all but love climbing and that picture of our ds made me drool...sorry, I know it's a huge problem for you but I can really understand his compulsion and yes, it's all about changing perspectives for me too. It just seems a bit cruel to stop him altogether (although I totally get the safety issues).

The reason I'm asking where you are is that there are a number of places where you can top rope outside - whenever I've been there's been no one much around (so no waiting) and being outside you really get the whole changing views really well. It's toproping so safe.

The places I've been to are in Kent, but I'm sure there are others elsewhere.

winestein · 27/04/2008 13:01

You are just obsessed with washing machines now Yurt. (You will shortly be completely under my mind control...muhahaha. ha. ha. h.)

I keep thinking bungalow in the Fens, but I realise this isn't overly helpful .

I do hope you find a workable solution to this one.

Original poster

yurt1 · 27/04/2008 18:15

PMSL @ bungalow in the fens.

Well I was keeping an eye on him and looked up to find him with both knees on the ledge - holding onto the trellis and leaning over. One heart attack later I brought him inside (went down badly). Thankfully some photos of mumsnetters white goods and hoovers (yes really) that were sent to me in 2005 calmed him down.

ib what's top roping? He does love climbing - I don't know what 9 year old boys are like usually, but he does seem very good (no fear). I take him on Dartmoor and he starts to scale the tors. Last week he shot up the (small) cliffs in front of thelarge building here (from the beach) so he could peer over into someone's patio.

There is this place near us. My friend took her autistiic daughter and said it was really good. Although her daughter has enough speech to make herself understood and understands more than ds1 she can be as dangerous as him and can't wait. Apparently it's all 1:1. I think I need to take him (dh is scared of heights so it will be muggins up on the treetop adventure )

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Blandmum · 27/04/2008 18:19

LOL at the thought of you on the high ropes!

I would die and would be shivering on the ground with your (sensible) dh

WanderingTrolley · 27/04/2008 18:30

yurt what does he not like the feel of, and can you 'paint' that on the fence, as a deterrent?

I saw in your profile he is now over his dislike of grass and sand, so I guess turfing the fence is out...

Is there anything he won't stand on, so you could put that as a border along the bottom of the fence, like gravel?

Would something high that he can climb and you can root firmly in the middle of the garden be any good?

I think a big perspex fence is what you need, but God knows what that would cost.

ib · 27/04/2008 19:39

top roping is when the rope is in place, you attach to it and someone belays you (as opposed to lead climbing, which is the norm outdoors, where you secure yourself as you go up).

The thing is the belayer can keep the rope as tight as you want, which means even if the climber lets go completely they won't fall at all - just hang there suspended from the rope.

That place looks fantastic!

conniedescending · 27/04/2008 20:00

I would try to build the climbing the fence activity into his timetable/ schedule so he has acceptable times to look over the fence where he could then be supervised. In fact, I'd consider getting a ladder so he can climb it properly. This way you can take charge of the compulsion and make it as safe as possible.

I wouldn't worry about 'feeding' a compulsion, generally obsessions are best used as reinforcers for positive behaviour so instead of trying to prevent/ discourage it (who know what he'll replace it with....could be far worse than looking over the fence?)it is better to try to work with what he has.

Long term, taking him to a climbing wall/ climbing is an excellent idea as you can phase out the climbing the fence at home and use the safer option in the community.

Original poster

yurt1 · 27/04/2008 20:15

It's a compulsion (so totally non-voluntary OCD type need) rather than obsession though connie- and they;re much harder to manage.

We don't really use timetables at home for all sorts of reasons - the main one being that ds1 cannot do anything at all alone so unless he has someone to do full time 1:1 activities with him (which he does sometimes but not all the time - and we're phasing back ABA at the moment) then they don't really work as there's nothing to put on it! I do bring him in, lock the door and say that he can go out again 'after lunch' or something when it all gets too much, but it;s hard when he has 2 little brothers who don't want to be stuck inside all day with him screaming the place down

We've decided the best thing to try is some sort of planting. Either on the fence, or in front of it. I'm going to get hold of ??? landscape gardners? goodness knows- someone who can do that sort of stuff.

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