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Original poster

Help! 20mo DS violent towards his 9 week old brother

35 replies

bristols · 24/04/2008 20:03

I really don't know the best way to deal with this. I'm finding it incredibly hard to deal with and it's starting to get to me.

DS1 hits DS2 fairly often, usually on the head or tummy. It can happen at any time, although is worse when I am feeding DS2. It seems to be an attention thing but I don't know what to do for the best. If I discipline him, he gets the attention he wants but if I ignore it, he keeps doing it. I feel that there are some things that just can't be ignored and this is one of them.

So what's the best way to deal with it? And how do you discipline a 20 month old??

OP posts:
2point4kids · 24/04/2008 20:07

Oh I sympathise. I also have a 2yr old and a 9 week old and am worried about that sort of thing happening.
Have you got a travel cot/playpen? I would try picking him up and putting him immediately in it every time he does it and ignore him for 2 mins or something like that..
Good luck x

Original poster
bristols · 24/04/2008 20:10

Congrats on your baby. We do have a travel cot. That sounds like a good idea. I have tried ignoring him and putting him in another room but he usually finds some toys to play with which defeats the object somewhat!

OP posts:
PosieParker · 24/04/2008 20:12

You start with a very firm no and especially when you're feeding I would not let DS1 get close enough to hit DS2. My DS1 wasn't allowed within reach of DS2 as, and I'm sure you feel this too, DS2 is just as precious as DS1 and I would have been mortified if DS1 had been hit by anyone. Your DS1 will not feel pushed out by not having proximity and it can be like anything else he's not allowed to do. He could really hurt DS2 too. I had a travel cot downstairs for DS2 so that he was out of reach.
Perhaps use distraction too and so make sure you're armed with books when you feed or toys, or have a special shoe box with lots of animals/objects in that you can ask DS1 to find. I would sometimes hide things under a tea towel and play boo and fetching things for the baby that he can see.
I would never ignore hetting another child and maybe you feel that he will become jealous of DS2 if you give him too many nos, which I understand but I think if you ask him to get an activity ready (like put the jigsaw on the table) whilst you are focussed on other things he will think your whole day is about him anyway. Best of luck!!

foxythesnowfox · 24/04/2008 20:14

I think thats a really good idea about the travel cot.

I'd like to suggest what someone suggested to me when I had a biting DS, she told me to spend just 10 minutes a day with him doing his thing. It was on the floor playing 'tracks and trains' for me. (Usually at 6am, yawn!)

It probably seems impossible, as it did to me at the time, but it made a huge difference.

PosieParker · 24/04/2008 20:15

If he plays in another room it doesn't defeat the object of ignoring, he's too young for long term ignoring (and long is 2 minutes to a 20 month old)and so it works no more hitting, brilliant. Your object at this age is not to punish but stop a behaviour at a certain time and you do! At this age all we can do is disapprove of things we don't like and eventually they won't do it. Don't beat yourself up you sound as if some things you are doing are really working!!

foxythesnowfox · 24/04/2008 20:20

Does he have a doll? If he had his own 'baby' could he mimic you and practice being gentle.

Sorry PosieP, but I disagree with the 'no'. I'd encourage him touching the baby (under my control obviously) with lots of 'gentle' and praise for how good and gentle he is with his brother.

The way I look at it is that newborns are pretty simply, and need their physical needs met (I include cuddles in that). Toddlers are more emotionally needed and complex. Its a difficult age with lots of development and growth to deal with, as well as sharing you. Try to be patient. You do have to stay in control, and be wary all the time.

foxythesnowfox · 24/04/2008 20:20

under YOUR control obviously, not mine!

tori32 · 24/04/2008 20:24

I agree with posieparker. Good ideas. I also have a 25mth old and have similar problems with trying to lie on her or wanting to climb on my knee when I feed dd2. She also says 'need a poo or wee' to get attention [grrr] when she doesn't need to go. It does get easier as their understanding improves iyswim. dd1 is bright and her understanding more like a 3yo so much easier to discipline. Sorry I haven't got more suggestions, just lots of empathy!

Umlellala · 24/04/2008 20:37

I'm with foxy here, model the behaviour you DO want as well as saying a clear 'no' for unacceptable behaviour.

Can you all have a cuddle while feeding DS2? Or can DS1 have the job of getting a cushion or stroking ds2's hair or something? Putting yourself in toddler's position, they prob just want some attention (and why not? ). Why not give an opportunity for some positive attention rather than all the negative stuff?

Original poster
bristols · 24/04/2008 20:43

I think I might get a box of things together that we only get out when I feed DS2. That will give DS1 something to concentrate on. He has a very short attention span at the moment! As you said, tori, I think it will get better with time, especially when he can communicate more easily.

I totally understand where he's coming from. He's had all my attention for the past 18 months and now he has to share me.

We do have a doll for him and I think it's a good idea to do a bit of role play with that. At the beginning, he was very gentle with his little brother but now that's changed. Maybe he's realised that the baby is here to stay!

OP posts:
PosieParker · 24/04/2008 20:46

I had dss with a 14 month age gap and they are very close, never jealous. I'm sure OP gives her older ds plenty of attention and think that hurting his sibling is a 'no' action, see what works for you.

Original poster
bristols · 24/04/2008 20:46

I would find it almost impossible to keep him at arms length whilst feeding the baby. He follows me everywhere and climbs onto the sofa to get close to us when I'm feeding. If I sat on a different chair, he'd still be at my knees and able to touch DS2.

OP posts:
Original poster
bristols · 24/04/2008 20:48

Also, I always spend time playing with DS1 when I can, usually when DS2 is napping. I make a conscious effort to do that even though I could be doing lots of house work!

OP posts:
Original poster
bristols · 24/04/2008 20:49

I do think that hurting his brother is a 'no' action. Surely some things just have to be?

OP posts:
MicrowaveOnly · 24/04/2008 20:51

ooh I had this, and the midwife said 'its normal and it will pass after a few months' but no way, it lasted until dd reached 3 yrs old!

But now they are bestest buddies! I do wonder if older boys are worse than older girls. The whole big sister thing seems to play on their natural mother feelings - but boys just feel threatened!

Umlellala · 24/04/2008 20:52

Of course. But making a big deal out of it will give him lots of negative attention which MAy be counterproductive.

I think there's lots of ideas here (and reassurance that it's very normal!) and you should go with what you think is right for your situation... You are mum, you know best

seeker · 24/04/2008 20:58

I used to read do dd a lot while I was feeding ds. And watch TV. In my opionion, the important one is the older child - the baby will be fine so long as he has milk and warmth and cuddles - the older child needs so much more. I think 20 months is too young to be disciplined really - and certainly when he is just expressing completely understandable feelings of jealousy, anger and resentment. It's important to acknowledge his feelings - maybe even sometimes put the baby down midfeed and get the older one something he wants, so that he can see that his position hasn't been compeletly usurped.

Original poster
bristols · 24/04/2008 20:59

Umlellala - I do see your point. I suppose to him any attention is good, even if it's negative. I think the best thing is to use the distractions to avoid the situation happening in the first place!

The problem is that I do not feel as though I know best at the moment. I feel very out of my depth with it all.

OP posts:
tori32 · 24/04/2008 21:03

DD2 is 4 wks old and today dd1 said 'Wheres dd2 from?' I said 'out of mummys tummy, do you remember?' she replied 'put her back in there!' My response was 'sorry sweetheart, she has grown too big and won't fit!' There ended the conversation. Very funny though. I CM so during the day she was ok, just played up when the baby didn't leave before evening meal time!!

Umlellala · 24/04/2008 21:05

Aw, of course you do know best, but you might have to experiment to get there... none of us KNOW immediately but you can try stuff out and see what works...

(anyway, I am speaking from a theorical position right now - much easier - as I won't be dealing with the reality of two little ones for 3 months! Congrats on your baby btw)

foxythesnowfox · 24/04/2008 21:06

Hitting is definately a 'no' action - of course, I didn't mean to suggest otherwise - but getting close to the baby isn't IYSWIM. Thats what I was trying to say, perhaps not very well!

Going from one to two is hard Bristols. I found it really tough. I felt terribly guilty for DS1.

I have the same age gap as PP and no jealousy towards each other either, but it manifested in DS1 biting others. A behavioural specialist suggested the 10 minute thing, after I was so distraught by it all. I was also PG with DC3 at the time, and it was really hard going emotionally.

It does stop, and it does get easier. Its a case of being on the ball and practical (making sure DS1 doesn't get close without you there) and not excluding him because you are scared of what he might do.

Whilst it is hard now, you will reap the rewards of having two so close in the years to come, honestly.

cory · 24/04/2008 22:13

MicrowaveOnly on Thu 24-Apr-08 20:51:21
"I do wonder if older boys are worse than older girls. The whole big sister thing seems to play on their natural mother feelings - but boys just feel threatened! "

Not IME. Dd was 3.6 when ds was born, and if I hadn't put on a lock on the door for when I went to the loo, we wouldn't have a little brother by now. Breast-feeding was the hardest: she'd throw things at him, or try to grab his legs and pull them.

It got a lot better once he started to crawl around and became more interesting.

But apparently I broke a Santa doll over my little brother's head when he was 1 and I was 2.

PosieParker · 25/04/2008 13:37

TBH I really don't agree with not saying no or giving negative attention because he already has mixed feelings. Children are a little more simple in my experience and it's how you do something rather than why, if you constantly coo at your newborn and ignore DS1, that is one thing but you should be able to feed DS2 in safety. When I had my second countless friends thought it would be good to see how their LOs reacted to a baby and I just don't agree. I had a c-setion and so DS1 also wasn't able to climb on me for a couple of weeks, but we did other things to give affection to eachother... I would get to his level or something.
I think there's a danger in pandering too much to the 'pushed out' feelings of a first child, 20 months is tricky anyway. What does DS1 like best?
Bristols you've got a new baby and I'm sure emotions are high and all the usual uncertainty about having a baby, but rest assured all the things you do with DS1 is enough to let him know you love him very much and some of the things he does is not acceptable. Really good luck!
Um - It's a funny thing about how you feel about DC1 and how you think only about them and how they will respond to a new baby, but when DC2 comes along you have the same overwhelming protection about them too. Theory is fantastic and if you have ideas about how you'll cope that's brilliant but don't underestimate how upsetting it is to see your baby hurt even if it is by DC1. If that reads as patronising I bloody hope not, but it is really different.

Umlellala · 25/04/2008 15:01

We shall see! I never really had the whole 'dont come near my baby' emotion with dd and let friend's toddlers experiment and play so for me, it would feel far more natural to have all the children together. Def agree that there is a trend in pandering too much to 'pushed out' feelings - (presents for everyone ) and you have to say 'no' sometimes.

Totally accept that if having one child that knocks all your plans sideways is anything to go by, you have to go with the flow when it happens . Everyone's family is different, and people should be confident to try different approaches... mum knows best (eventually).

PosieParker · 25/04/2008 17:11

I am a defender of maternal instincts!!
I allowed my friend's chidren (14-18 months, so toddlers) come near my DC2 an one planted a brick in his head. Another friend used to let her three year old pick up the new born and so maybe I'm thinking of extreme examples when I hear about saving DC1's feelings more than DC2.....