Talk to me about 'mean' girls........

[Earlybird]

Have always heard about how 'mean' girls can be to each other. When does this trait begin to emerge? Any ideas what causes it?

Did you experience it yourself growing up, and what were your strategies for dealing with it?

Were you the 'mean' girl? Why? What made you stop - or did you just grow out of it?

BTW - not talking about targeted bullying toward a specific child, just general unpleasant, dominant 'alpha female' traits...

A great deal of 'mean girl' behaviour happens at school (either in class or on the playground)....so who deals with it? What is the role for teachers, what is the role of parents, and how/can they work together to address the social behaviour/education of our children?

Earlybird - dds secondary school have learning mentors (adults) who have an room/office in the school and are a link between the parents, the school and other agencies. They can provide advice or simply be someone there to listen to the students. I have been told they have a drop in sessions and provide support and help or just a shoulder to lean on.

DDs head of year suggested that dd pay a visit. The phone call went well. This type of clique pressure, goes on everywhere I expect. Even in grown women from what I've seen.

DD is sensitive, bright and caring and treats her friends as she would like to be treated herself. She can't understand how others are programmed, to be so mean. I love her so much.

Interesting gargarin - but it does not resonate with me one iota.

Don't recollect any 'mean girl' stuff whilst I was at school, and thus far dd (Year 1) has not encountered any either.

Tend to think the whole thing is exaggerated and overstated, and a bit of a cliche

Year 1 is still early, I have found with my own that once they are in Primary it begins, worse in years 5 and 6 as hormones kick in. Maybe that should be when more is done. By Secondary its all too late.

Yes I agree Year 1 is still early, but I don't recollect anything significant of this nature throughout my entire schooling.

I have noticed this in girls , generally escalating from aged 6 upwards.
I have often had friends with DDs beside themselves over the evil treatment metered out by other girls to their child.
I have 2 boys and never any trouble of this kind. Pehaps it's partly due to the fact that boys don't interact verbally very much anyway. Disagreements tend to be short lived and at the very worst settled with a short tussle.
I was bullied throughout school by a succession of different girls and even when I first started work I was bullied (many years ago!). No one who knows me now would believe it.
It seems some girls are natural targets. I suspect jealousy is a strong trigger. I notice girls who are pretty or clever seem to get the exclusion treatment.
As a parent , apart from the obvious discussion with school, I think you have to work on building the victim's confidence and self esteem and try to teach practical techniques to deal with mean girls.

Boys can be like this too. DS2 (aged 5) is best friends with the boy next door, really likes him and loves playing with him. DH and I not so keen as this boy has a mean streak anyway. They started school in September and while boy next door is happy to be best friends with DS at home, he refuses to play or let DS join in with his games at school.

DS is a very friendly little chap and really doesn't understand why this boy won't play with him at school. DS has many many friends at school and I tell him to play with his nice friends, but a 5 yr old doesn't understand. Just today my neighbour offered to walk DS home from school for me and said her son was hugging DS all the way home, but when I asked if he had played with at school, DS said no he won't. Thankfully they are in different classes!

It may sound over the top, but DH and I feel that this boy has really knocked DS's confidence (other issues too) but as we share a massive driveway with him, it is hard to stop them from playing together.

I am so glad my children aren't mean...quite the opposite in fact.

At last ... here's some excerpts from DD's "Bad Girls?" PSHE leaflet I mentioned this morning.

Handleme - I think it is taken seriously because DD and class had series of PSHE workshops purely on girl bullying, with this leaflet accompanying it. Led by LEA anti-bullying team (she's Y7).

The main points are:

What's the Problem?
"The point to remember is that the way girls bully each other, and it IS bullying, is as bad as physical bullying if not worse. People have always thought this type of bullying is acceptable and part of being a girl. It is not. It is serious and some girls can be made to feel so bad that they become depressed, self harm and develop eating disorders...."

"You may thing this hasn't got anything to do with you, but it has. It's every girl's responsibility to stop this from happening and every girl will probably be a bully or a victim at some stage in their life"

Then there is a list of example behaviour - eg. ignorming everything target girl says, turning away from her, breaking her up from freinds, spreading gossip, etc etc

Section entitled "What Can We Do?

1. understand meaning behind comments eg if someone tells you "your hair is dread" it means bully actually likes it more than her own
2. DONT TRY TO PLEASE THE BULLY. You've done nothing to deserve it - don't change yourself to make the bully stop
3. Be careful who you trust, and who you tell secrets to
4. Get out before it's too late - some girls cling onto friendships with their bully because they think they wont have any friends otherwise. But this allows the bully to continue.
5. The popularity contest - it's not all it's cracked up to be. Does anyone actually liek the popular girl or are they all frightened of her? Her 'friends' may cling onto her for safety or because they like the limelight. But if everyone stopped pretending, she wouldn't be powerful or popular any more. In the 'cool crowd', the friendships aren't really that close because they can never trust each other. Not that cool.
6. Avoid peer pressure. Dont compare yourself to others or try to fit in with the popular crowd. If someone asks you to do something wrong it's not because they like you - it's because they want you to take the blame for their actions.
7. keep emotionally healthy - smile at people (yes people really do smile back), nurture something (a pet, a plant), keep a diary of good stuff, and exercise regularly.
8. Show them you're not bothered
9. Talk about it - tell parents, teachers and other adults"

There is an established mentor system in the school, 6th form buddies and v. good pastoral care so it does work well and is taken very, very seriously.

I'm off for my tea now!

Not read the thread but that sounds pretty good stuff, primula

As I always say on these threads read "Cats Eye" by Margaret Atwood. Brilliant read - and her writing about girl on girl bullying (aged 6-12ish) and how it affects the narrator into adulthood is very very good.

Txs Primula - am going to print that off for DD

It is the school's job to deal with this sort of situation as well as the parents. It should be an ongoing thing that is discussed regularly and addressed in a variety of ways across the curriculum and during playtime.

Schools do lessons and assemblies where social and emotional issues are addressed and children are actually taught how to deal with situations. Lessons might include stories, discussions, problem solving activities, drama and role play. The aim is to teach a shared vocabulary which the children can use and understand, working towards emotional literacy and a thoughtful approach towards relationships.

Situations such as Earlybird describes can cause huge barriers to learning so schools try to remove them as best as they can.

I think that from reading this thread schools need to do a better PR job about this sort of work as not many people seem to know about it.I'm sure that parents would be really interested it what goes on. They might even like it!

My class love this sort of work as it creates a lovely warm atmosphere in the class and they are all highly engaged as for them friendships are of the utmost importance.
Much more important than active and passive verbs.....

Like mother like daughter. Having met all the mothers at my dds nursery, I could predict which ones my daughter would get on with and which ones would be more complicated. And I was correct.

Although on the whole the girls get on with each other, there is one bossy girl. She's not a bully by any stretch of the imagination, but she likes to bark out orders, just like her mum.

Then there's another girl who sucks up to the flavour of the month - usually the one with the most money, or newest toy, nicest dress etc, just like her mum.

I'm lucky in that the nursery have good children and good parents - despite their minor blemishes in character and personalities! Have previously sent dd to a nursery with nightmare children and equally awful parents, I'm counting my lucky stars that my daughter attends a nursery school with such good people. I hope this will be the case for the rest of her school years!

Prim, I really like that leaflet - the "keep emotionally healthy" most of all. I think it is advice to live by, whatever age you are, and it's a nice lively way of putting it. Thanks for posting it - and yes, spudmasher, I completely agree about schools giving this more of a profile.

When I think about the efforts that were not put into this by schools I was at ...

Returning to EB's OP & subsequent further details of situation, it sounds as if (or am I being simplistic?) this isn't (so far) a matter of subtle complicated exclusion meanness but more the tale of a girl who can't/doesn't know how to get herself comfortably included - hence when things aren't just the way she wants, her resort to physical force - because, perhaps, she doesn't have the skills to assert herself in any other way?

I think your dd, EB, and her friends, are being complete poppets to try to keep on including her - but in this exact case I think a definite lack of social skills is being shown, and that you having a word with the teacher - perhaps to suggest some of the things that spudmasher does - might benefit everyone?

mumofhelen-like mother like daughter?no,that cant be so,my dd1 is opinionated and dramatic

thanks for that prim.i am going to print it for dd1 as well.

this thread has been very useful.i have reached the conclusion that being a mum to boys is easier.

I meant to say - it probably wasn't clear - that the word with the teacher should be about all the children together doing social skills/role-play activities, so not singling any one child out. But you probably understood that even if I wasn't clear ...

These thoughtful suggestions have given me a new perspective on the situation - and perhaps a better understanding of how complex the dynamics can be between children.

Have got an informal chat time set with the dd's class teacher, and will let you know her response.

Earlybird - I hope it goes well
I have found the thread very useful

this thread is really intresting

never had it with dd1

but dd2, i have heard say your not coming to my party, your not my friend etc
and it makes me cringe and i dont know how to deal with it so any advice wouldbe gratefully received...

Gosh, all of this just rings so true, DD1 (14) hasn't had any major problems with friendship groups at secondary school (yet? ) but my niece and goddaughter who I'm very close to had a terrible time in y9 and she has just been told recently by the teacher who dealt with it that she thinks it was all because she is pretty, clever and from a wealthy family, sad thing is dgd just couldn't see it at time.
Girls can be so spiteful.
I love how my sons deal with fights! (3 minutes of extreme physical violence then a good on you mate and a handshake)