Talk to me about 'mean' girls........

[Earlybird]

Have always heard about how 'mean' girls can be to each other. When does this trait begin to emerge? Any ideas what causes it?

Did you experience it yourself growing up, and what were your strategies for dealing with it?

Were you the 'mean' girl? Why? What made you stop - or did you just grow out of it?

BTW - not talking about targeted bullying toward a specific child, just general unpleasant, dominant 'alpha female' traits...

I disagree - ever heard the phrase, 'there are no bad dogs, just bad owners'?

Some kids (and I'm talking here about kids who don't have any recognised behaviour problems/disorders) may be more genetically predisposed towards the aggressive end of the spectrum than are other kids but the nurture they experience will determine to what extent their aggressive tendencies come out.

Yes I have heard of that phrase but I doubt, any two children are alike even if they have the same parents and upbringing. I have not studied in this field, this is only by way of experience and seeing other families.

there's a 3 year old girl at toddler group who constantly shouts about my ds "it's the baby, it's the baby quick let's hide he's not playing with us" or "go away baby" or "

goodness nappyaddict, that's awful - how does the girl's mum react to that behaviour?

DD has been raised with the idea that it is important to be kind to others - a 'do unto others' philosophy. The dilemma is now I am telling her she doesn't have to (and perhaps shouldn't) be kind to/tolerate someone who is mean/treats her badly (obviously I'm not suggesting she retaliate). She doesn't seem to 'get' the distinction. Dd's impulse is to be forgiving/understanding, which is admirable, but don't think it serves her well in this situation.

TBH, I'm astounded that the other girls tolerate the behaviour also. Instead of ignoring/excluding this child (or letting her join in only when she behaves well), they seem to allow her to dominate.

EB - all the other mums just laugh and think it's sweet, although a lot of the time i think her mum doesn't hear her. it took me 3 weeks to realise who her mum even was cos i'd never seen any adult talking to her as if she was theirs. well apart from the seesaw thing and the boy who she told to do it got told off. didn't stop her telling him to do it the next week though. i was on the other side of the room and heard him screaming. i knew it was a hurt cry but hadn't seen what had happened. my friend said she saw the boy hit him but i couldn't really do much having not actually seen it. i don't mind too much cos ds is going through a hitting phase so i know what it can be like it.

I do like that 'queenbee/wannabe/outsider anology.....rings VERY true!!

I think a lots of the girls do learn from their mothers.......the queenbee grows up, has her own daughters, and her 'queenbee' traits are still with her which her DD's pick up on (think about it, we all still see some of those mums in the playground now).

we all have tendency to subconciously pass on to out DD's the same traits that we had as teens......if we were unconfident and bullied it effects us into adulthood, and altho we try to ensure our DD's don;t have the same upbringing/attitude/outlook, I think we still act similarly NOW if we run into an adult 'queenbee' and so our DD's see and absorb how we concur to her (I am guilty of this......was terribly bullied at school and have recently had a friendship problem that my daughters were witness too).

you see it all the time tho.....girls gossip about and look down upon those not dressed the same as them or 'different' to them in any way (and we as adults would be hard pressed to see what those girls see.....but they see or sense something), and there it starts!!!

boys on the other hand....if they get annoyed by another lad, or feel as tho they are being 'put upon', they thump each other (or whack with sticks/lego guns/balls), shake hands and then are best mates!!!

Aww nappyaddict, that' not sweet. Your poor little boy!

Well I see this in full force at DS's P&T group and most of the girls there are age 4 MAX!

meandmyjoe - i do get a little lump in my throat when i see him just standing there on his own looking all sad wondering why they won't play with him, but then i think god nappyaddict get a grip of yourself what are you going to be like when he starts school if you're like this at 21 months!

what's the answer then, to speak to the school? and suggest what? dd's class (Y1) has a group which seems to be growing bigger that one girl won't let dd join in with - have already spoken to teacher once, who has had chat with the class about playing with everuone and no gangs allowed, what more could the school do?

I would not confront the parents- for the simple reason that you only hear one side of the story.

I still remember when an irate couple of parents rushed into the school and demanded to see myself and my friends because they claimed their daughter was being bullied.

What she had omitted to tell them was that we stopped playing with her because she went around telling all the other children how creepy I was to look at (I had a bad squint). I had been the first to befriend her when she came new into our class, but after that I hardly felt comfortable playing with her, and my two best friends chose to play with me rather than her- that was the extent of our bullying. But the parents were convinced she was a little innocent. At the time I thought they were stupid, now I understand them better.

Though I don't believe it's always the fault of the parents, or else how do you explain that one child in a family can be aggressive and another one caring and compassionate? I've known it to happen.

If there is a bullying situation I would ask the teacher's advice instead, in a non-confrontational manner. I have actually done this twice, and in both cases the teacher has known more about the situation than me and been able to do something efficient.

Funnily enough, though I was bullied at school and had a confidence problem, neither of my children seems to have inherited it. I reckon they take after MIL who is a very outgoing person.

Oh this thread strikes such a chord with me. I was on the receiving end of this sort of thing as a child.

There is a serious girl bullying issue in my dc's primary at the mo - I know one class where it is a major issue with some very, very unhappy children. The problem is that parents of some of the 'bullies' are very influential locally, Head does not stand up to them and it is all brushed under the carpet. (Sorry you probably don't want to hear that )

My personal view is that this is the sort of thing that needs to be addressed, not tolerated and clamped down on from the start. If it's not, by the time they're in mid-juniors it gets very nasty, and then secondary ... well. You should see teacher first, if no joy then head. Telling them all to be nice to each other is not cutting the mustard quite frankly.

Oh god it makes me

Bink's post earlier rang a lot of bells.

DS's teacher is completely unapologetic about, as Bink puts it, 'social engineering' - splitting up over-dependent pairs in class, preaching inclusiveness, etc - but with the boys just as much as with the girls- and there have been several instances where a pair of boys have needed to be separated a bit. She is faced with splitting the year group into 2 classes from September and has said to everyone that given that there will be only 5 girls (20 children in total) she will not split the girls up.

I think there is a danger of parents accepting the 'mean girls' thing by saying 'girls will be girls'. The equivalent with boys is fighting. DS's boy-dominated class were always fighting amongst themselves at play time. Their teacher and some of (most of?) the parents have come down hard on this and refused to accept that violent behaviour is inevitable - I am not saying it has 100% stopped but it is certainly no longer out of control.

DD isn't old enough for the peer group stuff yet but shows every sign of being a much more manipulative child than DS, so I can see that I will be having exactly this sort of challenge in a few years time!

Oh God don't talk to ME about mean girls please.. It's DD's first day at a new school. She is Y4 (9 years old). I spent a long time this morning straightening her hair before putting it in a pony tail so she makes a good first impression. And her new uniform is, I hope, just so.

Because 9 year olds can be really mean.

My oldest is now in Year 7 at secondary, her class has just completed short course in handling bullying in PSHE.

They were given a booklet - yes I think the title was actually "Mean Girls" - specifically about girls and bullying. It is very, very good with a lot of practical advice - and emphasis on zero tolerance of such behaviour and how to cope with it.

I think it's in her school bag. If this thread's still going at the end of the day I'll try to dig it out. It's still applicable to a lot of Primary/junior situations.

Prim, if the threads not active, bump it with your info! Sounds like stuff we could all do with hearing.

CRH-my dd1 is 9 and she is having problems with the girls in the back street.its an awful age.i hope your dd gets on ok today.the 'new' children in my ds1 and dd1's school always seem to be very popular,it as the same when i was at school.

what to do though when things like this are happening outside school?im not having her hiding away and never learning to stand up for herself like me

DD1 has come home today in tears from clique at school, isolating her. Started happening when she started yr 7 last Sept. I got a call saying she was ill, but she'd made it up and was nearly in tears walking out.

Every time she tries to make a new friend this little mean girl clique dominate the situation, and push her out. She says "they just don't want to see me happy". She is now worried that the two new mates she saw at the weekend will be targeted to exclude her, by this 3 girl clique.

I am going to speak to the school. It's a silent and mean way to bully someone.

Primula - would love to know what the booklet says.

I was definitely an outsider and DD (yr5) is too, although at the moment completely unphased by it but she has been upset by the way some girls behave towards other girls and tries to make peace (she should have been born wearing a blue beret!). But it is just begining to get to the stage where some of the alpha girls are noticing that she is a bit "odd" and she needs to know how to handle it.

Anyway - you did not need to know all that - sorry!

BlinkinNora - on your DD's behalf. This is every bit as bad as physical bullying and the school should take it just as seriously. Good Luck.

Oh Blinking

seems there's been a turning point today at toddler group. the little girls ears must have been burning this morning!! it started off as usual but during the last half an hour she tried to include ds in her game of "classroom" - it was more her being bossy and wanting everyone to play her game rather than being kind but better than nothing. then later on she came and stood by him at the window and talked to him and gave him his cuddly toy which he'd left under the table and later on when it was song time she gave him an instrument out of the box cos all the other children were in the way and he couldn't get one. long may it continue!! its daft but i felt so happy inside when she let him play with her. hopefully the others will follow suit and stop bashing him over the head with toys now as she is sort of the ringleader.

For older children I have just found this great link on www.kidshealth.org

DD is reading it now. I'm waiting for the school to ring back, so I can get her seated away from these girls in the class, that would be a good first step.

This is so true for her
"As many great kids have found, entry into a clique isn't guaranteed. In fact, a girl who is seen as likeable and popular may actually be excluded from belonging to a clique. That's because her personality or confidence may pose a threat to the leaders. She may not be a good "follower" ? especially if she can be popular enough on her own. Sometimes her friends may even be invited to join when she isn't. Clique members may deliberately exclude her in an attempt to take away her perceived power or the threat they think she could pose." She read it and smiled as it hit home.

Is it likely that (unchecked) bossiness in a younger girl, turns into bullying as she gets older?

Most children like getting their own way, but it's a shame how far some will go to achieve that.

Blinking that is a really good site. Very similar to my DD's booklet. Good advice there

Earlybird - from what I've personally seen .. the short answer is 'yes'. Bossiness in itself neither good nor bad, but it is HOW it is managed and directed.