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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

contrary and defiant 3yr old - what to do ??

29 replies

Coolmama · 07/04/2008 21:29

Ds has just turned 3 and up until now has been a really good boy - pleasant, easy-going and generally does as he is told. However, the last few months have seen him get more and more defiant ("No, I won't") and contrary ("No, I don't want milk" to "yes, I want my milk now") all done at high volume.

I realise this is, to a certain extent, a testing of boundries and asserting of independence, but aside from being consistent in ignoring this behaviour is there anything else that you would be able to suggest, oh Wise Ones ??? ( before I throttle the little blighter!!!)

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

buickmackane · 07/04/2008 21:34

Bumping for you and will watch with interest! Am in same boat.

HonoriaGlossop · 07/04/2008 21:37

Having had a boy who NEVER at any point liked to 'do as he is told' I feel a bit qualified to post on this one!

I think it all depends on your approach, but what worked for me was getting ROUND ds rather than facing him down....because a) I am the most unconfrontational person ever and the total opposite of an 'authoritarian' parent and b) I would have spent 23 hours of every day facing him down

I ended up not really asking him 'straight' to do stuff, but always either keeping it in character as in "superheroes always change out of their pyjamas to be ready to go on a mission" or making it a game or challenge as in 'I bet I can get my shoes on first!' and also added in a dollop of reverse physchology as in telling him he couldn't do something he was really allowed to do....put his milk in front of him and in mock serious voice say "now don't touch that milk, I saw a SLUG in there" and then when he went to (of course) drink it, I'd fall about pretending to be sick

Quite fun really. And worked nearly ALL the time, except for those days when he just NEEDED a tantrum or when I was just not able to raise my game.

I think there is an awful lot to be said for not giving them much TO defy

thisisyesterday · 07/04/2008 21:51

well, I have been reading unconditional parenting recently, and while I don't agree with everything Alfie Kohn says a few things have stuck out for me (I too have a contrary 3 yr old)

1.) why is being "good" determined by how easily we can control our children? If we want them to be independent adults we need to let them learn how to be independent.

2.) We need to be asking ourselves if what we are asking of them is reasonable.

3.) why shouldn't they get a choice in what they do/where we go/what they wear? It's bred into us that we, as parents, make the decisions and that's that. but it doesn't have to be like that

4.) it doesn't hurt to do things their way.

and something someone on another site said to me recently also hit a note which was basically that a child who will not tolerate HIS needs not being met is not a bad thing.

we don't need to break our kids down and make them do everything our way. we can have some give and take. we can be permissive.

I've been much easier going with ds1 the last couple of weeks and his behaviour has improved, as has his relationship with and his attitude towards me.
he doesn't see everything as a battle any more, and neither do I.

I don't know if this will help you any really. and I haven't got to the bit in the book where it tells you what to do when you really really need them to do what you say right now, but so far I am enjoying the read and it's making my life easier

Original poster

Coolmama · 07/04/2008 22:00

Thank you both for the replies. I think my main problem is that because DS has been such an easy-going child, we have never had to deal with any tantrums etc before, so this all comes as a bit of a shock and I guess I am floundering a bit! -
HG I hadn't thought about the "backwards" approach and will definitely be giving that at a bash - I do find that distraction helps, but I guess I need to be a bit more creative sometimes.
TIY - I have a feeling I will be off to the bookshop tomorrow -
I love the idea of developing independence in a child, but I also feel that there are some battles I am just going to have to win like teeth-brushing and bedtime. Time to break out the "superheroes"!

OP posts:

hana · 07/04/2008 22:03

think you have to pick your battles. I agree with what thisisyesterday says. I have an extremely willful, stubborn independent 3 year old daughter - she is infuriating I have to say, but ohhh what a personality! things like wearing wellies all year long, shoes on wrong feet, 12 hairclips in one side of her hair, getting herself dressed in all sorts of getups- I could go on and on. These things don't bother me at all - it's things like putting seatbelts on and wriggling out, slumping onto ground when she is tired of walking, hiding under the table when we have to go somewhere - these ar ethings I have to tackle on a daily basis and those things she gets no choice over - I don't discuss it or give her options, she does it, or I do it for her. It is so exhausting. will watch this for tips (god I need some)

hana · 07/04/2008 22:05

yes - teethbrushing, this isn't negotiable for me, and if she doesn't do it willingly ( I still brush) I have to force her to. That's usually enough to have her do as I want her to.

dd2 has always been independent although I wasn't prepared for this - dd1's behaviour at this age was nothing like this

thisisyesterday · 07/04/2008 22:09

I've been counting.
so, ds1 get down from the back of the sofa
NO
I am going to count to 3 and when I get to 3 I would like you to be down
1
2
3

he's down.

I have NO idea what I do if I get to 3 and he isn't down, but so far it's worked every time lol
I haven't threatened anything. just said I will count and I expect him to do/stop doing whatever it is

hana · 07/04/2008 22:12

threatening doesn't work for me or dd2

I also do the count and if I get to 3, I get her down myself and she sits on the stairs

do you have any other children thisisyesterday? I just don't have the energy that she needs sometimes ( have 6 year old and 18m as well....)

HonoriaGlossop · 07/04/2008 22:12

if I'd tried counting, my ds would have stood on the back of the sofa, hands on his hips like Peter pan, with a 'bring it on' look of delight on his face.....

I love how kids are all so different....different approaches are bound to be needed!

HonoriaGlossop · 07/04/2008 22:13

(think i ought to make clear I would have DEALT with him in that scenario, he's not a brat - just found it SOOOO much more productive not to have to have these sorts of battles in the first place)

Original poster

Coolmama · 07/04/2008 22:16

I do use the "I am counting to 3" thing, but I use it sparingly as it works! - have got to 3 a handful of times and followed through every time so DS knows I am serious. I just want ways of getting through the day where everything does not become a pitched battle! - I have to add that I am 36 weeks pg with dc2 and I wonder if that does not have something to do with the onset of this all too.

OP posts:

thisisyesterday · 07/04/2008 22:19

yes I have a limpet of a ds2 who is 5 months and permanently attached to me, which does make things difficult.

I dunno, I was getting to a point where I was really stressed out with ds1's behaviour (and added to my sleep deprivation it wasn't good)
I've just chilled out though I think. I've started thinking before saying NO or don't do that, does it really matter? I've been more relaxed and so far, so has he.

As I say though, we've luckily not had any BIG things to contend with apart from him refusing to hold my hand crossing a road and me having to drag him across

buickmackane · 07/04/2008 22:21

Some days every little thing's a battle, isn't it? This morning we were walking DS1 to school and were in a bit of a hurry as bell about to go, I look back to check DS2 is keeping up...and he's stopped dead and tucked himself in to the wall so is almost not visible. We were very close to the school gates so I kissed DS1 and told him to run on in. Then I marched back to DS2 and had to pull him along. I carried/dragged him all the way to the door just to be sure DS1 had gone in OK and was so put out with his behaviour. Can't stand it if it affects DS1 getting somewhere on time.

vInTaGeVioLeT · 07/04/2008 22:38

hmmmm. . . i too had an almost perfect boy - untill he turned 3
no helpfull advice but my sympathies

S1ur · 07/04/2008 22:54

It is an extraordinarily difficult age.

They want to be independent but they want to be helped, but they don't want you to help, they need you to be with them but don't touch anything, they want you to play the game but don't get it wrong. They want they want they want!

It is a cusp. They are soon to be children and leave toddlering far behind. After all they will soon be off making their own decisions at school and elsewhere. The idea of independence (and control) is intoxicating and exciting and also scary. It is no wonder they are a little conflicted.

So it's useful to remember where they're at.

My practical advice would be to try to recognise the moments when he can exercise his big boy status and afford him grown up respect in his decision. So with the milk thing, you could ask do you fancy some milk? if he dithers, laugh and say yes I sometimes find it hard to make up my mind too! I'll leave it here and then if you fancy it you could pour yourself a glass.

Other times obviously distraction and playing are a saviour as HG says. Because you are not engaging in a battle. Similarly races/timings/getting him to perform task on others (baby brothers/toys etc) can help, odd things like trying to things as quietly as possibly or as loudly as possible (loud tooth brushing is funny ).

Lastly, grab those moments he tolerates being your baby still, when you're reading to him give him that extra cuddle and tickle and kisses, cos he'll be off soon enough.

hana · 07/04/2008 23:01

fab post slur, so true

must go give this spirited 3 year old of mine a kiss while she sleeps so angelically......

friendlyedjit · 07/04/2008 23:09

my missy madam is also a delightful 3 year old. I thought for some reason that we'd bypassed the usual behaviour of" the 3 year old2 but then it started just when I thought it was safe!! I now remember all the shenanigans with her older 2 sisters. her 5 year old sister often now raises her eyes up to heaven and says things like " glory be"!!!
"what a palava" which is hysterical as dd3 has taken over from her!
I'm trying to pick my battles wisely! Am also almost 39 weeks with no 4! so I'm sure that adds to her overall 3 year old condition.. and she is fearing the unknown etc and worried and.......
I'm tryingto pre-empt the stand offs and also trying to be one step ahead. Sometimes works beautifully. All depends on how tired everyone is. Distraction can be brilliant and finding something funny to laugh at fantastic.Anything to break the cycle of the battle! It doesn't owrk all the time, but some of the time is good, and it occasionally does feel as if she has been entirely replaced by a completely different child but I know it will pass. IT WILL PASS!!!! and with number 4 in 3 years time it will be entirely the same and will sneak up on me.. Best of luck!

friendlyedjit · 07/04/2008 23:11

Her 5 year old sister raises eyebrows at younger sister's behaviour.. may help make some sense of my rambling!

PinkTulips · 07/04/2008 23:19

dd's favourite phrase is 'i don't want to listen to you' whilst running out of the room.

need i say more?!

pick your battles, only argue if it's absolutely necessary; let them fall off the thing they shouldn't be climbing, clean up the milk they spilt even though you told them not to run with it, freeze with no coat on... they'll soon learn that sometimes mummy's suggestions do have some merit!

PinkTulips · 07/04/2008 23:22

oh, and 5 4 3 2 1 has miraculous effects. i never get past 4 anymore

friendlyedjit · 07/04/2008 23:25

"I can do it myself"......then 1 minute later "why isn't someone helping me? You left me to do it myself.."

Does anyone remember Dora in Nemo " Just keep swimming" feels a little like that repeat the mantra " just keep grinning"

It's all good.

policywonk · 07/04/2008 23:33

Ah I do sympathise, but LOL at the thread title: 'contrary and defiant three-year-old' - Pope/Catholic??

Threes are MUCH worse than twos in my experience (both boys). Not much useful advice other than gin.

PinkTulips · 07/04/2008 23:37

policywonk. same thing crossed my mind

Janni · 07/04/2008 23:44

Counting down, as Pinktulips recommends and also one that works REALLY well with DD...

In a sad tone of voice and with a big sigh, when she's out of line, I say 'oh dear, WHAT a shame. You wanted xyz and now we're not going to be able to do that..WHAT a shame' It seems to have a magical effect.

You have to say it slowly and ponderously, to give them time to reconsider their behaviour

hana · 08/04/2008 08:55

yes agree that most 3 year olds go through stages like this - but with dd2 she takes every thing to extreme. dd1 was nothing like her!!!

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