I'm seriously starting to think that there is something wrong with DS1...does this sound like normal behaviour for a 2.5 yr old? (sorry, its long)

[2point4kids]

DS1 has always been a spirited child. He is one big ball of energy and very very hard work.
He has lots of wonderful personality traits, such as he is always very polite, very gentle with other children, never snatches or pushes etc. He is very confident with new people and is always the first one to try new and adventurous things. BUT he is also always running off at every opportunity. Cant sit still for any amount of time at all (he couldnt stay sitting long enough to eat a sandwich if we were out in a cafe, he would run around and be noisy. Throws a tantrum if I put him in a highchair). He cant concentrate on anything for any length of time.
I have always tried to do lots of things with him to allow him to burn some of his energy off. We go out somewhere every day, either to the park, to soft play, to the farm or to toddler groups etc.
As he gets older though his behaviour seems to be getting more uncontrollable rather than better.
My younger brother has ADHD and Aspergers and my Mum is always saying things to me like 'xxx really reminds me of xxx (my younger brother) when he was younger' etc. I always put her off and say 'dont be silly, he is a typical boy, most boys are full of energy' but recently I am starting to wonder if there really is something 'not quite right'

This is how today has been (a fairly typical day behaviour wise)..

Tantrum at me changing his nappy, insisting (shouting) at me that he hadnt done a poo and did not want a new nappy on. He had done a poo.
Tantrum at getting dressed. I encouraged him by saying if he got dressed we could go to the farm and see the animals, this helped very slightly.
Tantrum at putting his shoes on.
Tantrum at getting in the car, wanted to 'walk there'. Its a 20 min drive away. Had to pick him up kicking and screaming and put him in the car.
Got to the farm place and parked up. Walked about 2 metres into the farm trail and he turned round and said 'that way' pointing back to the car park. I told him there was nothing that way, only the car park and that all the animals were ahead of us. He has been before sevaral times and knows this, plus he is very good at understanding and communicating, so would have easily understood me. Every time I let go of him he ran back to the car park. If I tried to hold his hand he went floppy and laid on the floor yelling and crying. Wouldnt walk with me. Eventually I gave him the option of either walking nicely with me to see the animals or getting back in the car. He siad 'car'
Put him back in the car. Sat in there with him and gave him 5 mins to calm down and stop yelling and crying. I told him I was giving him one more chance. I had put him in the car because he wouldnt walk with Mummy. If I let him out again he needed to walk with Mummy. He said yes, ok.
Let him out and exactly the same thing happened ALL OVER again!
I was the only Mum in that place saying to her child 'you WILL look at the animals with me or we will have to go home'

NONE of my friends children behave like he does. Neither do my nieces and nephews.

Does it sound like 'normal' behaviour for a 2.5 year old? I dont know what to think any more!

2point4, don't know much about ADHD or aspergers but did'nt want your thread to go unanswered. Is he always incapable of concentrating? i.e. can he sit down and build a tower with blocks, concentrate on his favourite cartoon. FWIW my DS and a lot of other RL friends ds' were quite flighty at that age, but hes settled right down.
Theres nothing quite like a helpful suggestion from your mum to cast that seed of doubt.

I think it sounds perfectly normal. My 3yo ds had a MASSIVE increase in energy between 2.5 and 3 and he doesn't concentrate on things for longer than a few minutes. In cafes he is always getting down and running wild. He doesn't have bad tantrums but my 20mth old dd does- similar to your ds and getting worse!

I think boys of this age just have huge amounts of energy and there's not much you can do about it! However IME it is quite normal!

i havent much advise as sounds like my friends ds he is very boistruos and throws lots of tantrums

but if you are genuinly worried speak to your hv abd explain about your brother and what your mum has said and maybe she can have him refferred

at least then you can find out for peacre of mind my ds has speech delay and has been refferred to multi disciplinery team for assessments but luckily if tantrum occurs it doesnt take much talking to to resolve it

could just be the terrible two's maybe you need to be more consistant if he plays up you go home then explain why you took him home

ds used to do this to me he will be 3 this month if i said hold my hand to g to shop and he wouldnt i'd take him home after a warning and explain why i did this

had to do that few times now he'll hold my hand and i can reason with him

but if too worried they can tell you if you ahve reason for concern your bound to be more worried as your mum can see simliarities with your brother and if that is the case earlier you get him seen the better good luck hopefully he'll grow out of it for you x

Very difficult to tell at that age as there is such a variation in normal. What you are describing certainly sounds within normal range for a 2.5 year old. At that age they can find life incredibly frustrating - hence the "terrible twos". They also need loads of exercise - a bit like puppies as my MIL always says. Hang in there - I'm sure things will get better over time. 2.5 is a little early to be trying to diagnose ADHD in my experience.

i would definatly say do take him for peace of mind as lots of children do act this way and it is normal but also to have a child in family with aspergers does increase the chances of another child having it

my ds is being tested for autism he has speech delay and they think poor understanding was told so many times oh normal and most children dont talk till 3 or so and so didnt talk till 5

but if it is worrying you then get him seen as sometimes it is something else my ds neasrly 3 and from 2 have had worries but spent alot of time thinking it would just all work our ok and sometimes it doesnt and the earlier seen the better it is for them

and if all turns out ok then great but you dont want to always be worrying then having him seen to to late as it will always be on your mind they will know what they are looking out for

i would say sounds normal behaviour but also sounds not so normal if you ahve history of adhd in family so just take him to see hv and see what she thinks

I don't know much about ADHD but have a ds2 with AS (and a ds1 with high-functioning autism). The one thing that stood out for me in your post was that your ds understands and communicates well. At that age no amount of reasoning would have made any difference to a tantrum or meltdown. They wouldn't have understood and wouldn't have cared. They also wouldn't have pointed and said "that way".

It sounds to me as though he may well just be a very active little boy but if you have any doubts at all then definitely speak to your HV or GP about getting a referral to a Paediatrician.

I dont know anything about adhd. He sounds like my nearly 3 year old. He also sounds like my 6 year old was at that age, and my sister kept going on and on about how he must have adhd. He is a perfectly normal boy now. Sounds like pretty normal toddler behaviour to me.

Sounds perfectly normal to me.

Sounds exactly like my 3.8 yr old. He has been very vocal since he was a baby & has been able to communicate & understand us from an early age. He does everything whilst moving - running, jumping etc. The only time he is still is when he sleeps & even then he's like me & chatters, snores, & moves about a lot .

We only go to selected restaurants to eat out because since he stopped using a high chair at age 2 he simply won't sit still...so we only go to McD's because its a nice confined space, the local pub as it has a nice small ball pit he can run in & out of taking the odd bit of food or wagamamas simply because having noodle soup means he needs a lot of concentration & time to eat so we can eat ours in peace (although you have to time your eating to match his as once he's finished he is off out of the place & down the escalator )

He definately knows his own mind & will NOT accept anything he doesn't want or want to do. Your scene at the farm is very familiar to me!

I have never seen another child like him in real life either, although I have been reassured to hear friends with older children say that they remember what it was like to have a lively child like that!

He has calmed down slightly as he has got older (he is 3.8 now), for example he will at least stop & come back most times when he runs off when out & about LOL. But he is still my lovely, lively, funny unique chap & I wouldn't change him for the world tbh as he makes life so interesting. Challenging at times, but never boring .

We are coping atm so see no need to get his referred to see if he has "something". We are Home Educating him so aren't worried about him having to fit in or settle down - we are happy letting him enjoy being lively & settle down when he is ready to.

DD 2.5 exactly the same. Sounds pretty much normal to me. Sample conversation, for example, before going for a little stroll up the road to the playground:

"You want to go in the buggy or walk?"
"NO BUGGY NO BUGGY NO BUGGY!"
"Okay, we'll walk. Can you get your shoes?"
"NO SHOES NO SHOES NO SHOES!"
"Well, if you don't put your shoes on we can't walk there, can we?"

Repeat process

Dontcha just love toddlers! More seriously, DD like your DS is also very sweet natured generally, e.g. doesn't hit or push, shares well, enjoys other kids' company, confident, polite. I'm no ADHD/ Aspergers/ autism expert at all, but it sounds like if he is okay socially, then he's probably doing just fine.

I'm no expert either but it does sound pretty normal to me too.

He sounds rather intelligent to me. He probably has an awful lot going on in his mind that he doesn't know what to do about it all.

Tantrums getting dressed because he doesn't see the reason for doing so and it probably feels like it takes forever. No time to change nappy (boring too). Car means confinement to car seat (no fun). With regards to not wanting to see the animals he probably wanted to explore a different part of the farm (a car park can be a fascinating place with stones and cars etc I guess). He probably chose to return to the car becasue it was in the direction of where he wanted to go originally, then he agrees to get out and walk with you in the hope that he can escape and go in the direction he wanted to (since he has managed to 'trick' you into letting him walk back in that direction).

My DD2 who is two at the end of next month is the same and has been for a long time (since birth I think!), she is getting a lot worse in some ways as time goes on.

You say he is very good at understanding things and communicating and that he is polite and gentle - that is a lot for a 2.5yo to accomplish. I bet he is fine but if you are worried then I think you should just get him checked out to put your mind at rest.

Good luck, hope you manage to maintain some sanity throughout it all (I've lost mine for sure )

2.4 your post is quite reassuring actually, have similar episodes with DD (2.5) it is like they become so focused on "winning" or "getting their own way" that they forget that you are asking them to do the very thing they want to do. Had the same performance with mother and toddler the other day, DD usually loves this, but because she was tantruming because i dared to pick up her hair grip and passing it to daddy instead of letting daddy do it, she said she didnt want to go and screamed all the way there.

I have noticed that boys do seem to have more energy - but i bet there are million mums out there who will say, so do girls, or my boy likes to sit and paint, they are all different, but i guess they are all the same in as much as they will tantrum - something wrong if they don't.

Do you have to put 'running around' music on at breakfast time, so that a mouthfull of porridge can be eaten, then two or three circuits of the kitchen table at speed, then another mouthfull?

I'd say it's normal for a 2.5 year old. And if I were you, I'd expect it to get even more so for a while. DS goes bonkers over the tiniest, tiniest things and we have absolutely no worries about ASD with him. He's just 2.9 and full of beans. We make sure we get him knackered every day, and look forward to the day when he can bear to go through the steps required in order to Get to Where He Wants to Go. Like shoes on, coat on, turning the telly off...

My friend has a son who's even more so than mine. She has a friend who has a son who's even more so than hers. I find that very consoling. And I have also found that a couple of months makes a huge difference - 24 months not so bad, 27 months aaaargh! 33 months double-aaaaargh!!!!

Sounds absolutely normal.

He sounds like a spirited child - hence the running off. And he sounds as though he's pretty indepedent and wants to be able to do things himself.

My eldest used to have the most incredible tantrums about everything - it was like walking on eggshells. he's perfectly fine now.

My key tools were (and still are for my 2.5 year old who is less prone to the type of tantrums DS1 had but still knows how to throw them):

DISTRACTION - saying that loudly as it is key, key, key. I lie through my teeth and it goes like this. Tantrum/screaming - Me: Wow, did you just see that dinosaur run past the window. It was purple. And had spots.

seriously, it really does work.

If they revert to tantrum, I either offer choices, or walk away and ignore.

Your ds sounds just like my dd who is almost 3. It is heartening to hear that people think it's normal as you do start to wonder sometimes.

Is your ds potty trained?
Is he sensitive to sounds?
Does he have a high or low pain threshold?
How does he handle larger groups of children?
Does he prefer solitary play to playing with groups of children?

Normal for my dd. Looks like ds is going that way as well, with full writhing-on-the-floor thrashing thrombos. They are just more emotional than other children and feel strongly about things.

Hey just to tell you, if he does have ADHD, it's not the end of the world. I have a nephew who was just like this and he just started meds at 6th birthday and it's magical...what a difference. We always knew he was a sweet child but he would just get bored in 1.2 seconds and get into so much trouble looking for something exciting to do. He was very advanced verbally and personally, I'm excited that he's got this problem addressed so he can display his good traits instead of only getting attention for misbehaving.

My DS is 2.1 so I have all this to look forward to

I am very very reassured by a lot of your replies. Thank you so much
I do most of the time believe that he is just a spirited, independent little boy with unlimited energy, but the odd bad day makes me doubt myself, so thanks for the reassurance.
I'm glad to see so many other lo's are giving their Mums grey hair too

Yup, sounds like a normal little child in that lovely phase called the terrible twoe's....it will get better...just pick your battles....that way you may have a fewer tantrums...iykwim...

Nikos -
In answer to your questions..
No, he is not potty trained. Does not seem ready to start at all
He has very good hearing. Picks up on very slight noises that I wouldnt normally notice and his favourite phrase is 'whats that noise?'
He has a high pain threshold. Only cries if he has really hurt himself badly.
He is fine with large groups of children. I take him to toddler groups regularly and he attends nursery 1 day a week, so is well used to them.
He doesnt 'play' with other children as such (perhaps he is too young), but does sometimes copy other children by running behind them and laughing etc when we are at a toddler group.

He sounds totally normal (and lovley) but if you are worried make an appointment with your HV.

It isn't called the terrible twos for nothing. It does get better.

Sounds exactly like my DS who is coming up to 3 this month. The second half of 2007 was hell for us because of his tantrums. It was ridiculous but very depressing too.

He's better now but still throws wobblies at least once a day.

Take heart. Some kids are just like this at this age. Someone said to me it's because they're very intelligent and thus very very frustrated by their physical capabilities vs their mental plus the boundaries you are trying to implement. I wouldn't necessarily say my DS was super bright at all though. Super stubborn, yes!

2point, your ds sounds lovely. He will blossom.

I recommend Mary Sheedy Kurcinka's Raising Your Spirited Child