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Original poster

8 months on and still no sleep; this definitely IS NOT a phase!

33 replies

Washersaurus · 01/04/2008 22:04

I last posted in desperation about this a couple of months ago I think....

DS2 hasn't slept properly for 8 months (since birth), what the hell do I do with him?

He is totally unable to resettle himself without me letting him comfort suck (bf). What have I done wrong and how on earth do I fix it?

I don't mind co-sleeping or feeding at night but was sort of hoping that by now he would have grown out of it a little. He wakes and nurses around 4/5 times each night, and for the past few days he won't even go down for a daytime nap (despite being really really tired). He just cries until I give in and go and pick him up, and then will fall asleep on me whilst feeding or in the buggy.

I liked the co-sleeping article that someone linked to by Dr Jay Gordon, but do I really have to let DS2 get on with it until 12 months before tackling his sleep problems?

Any advice appreciated

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quirkychick · 01/04/2008 22:13

There is a really lovely book called the No Cry sleep solution written by Elizabeth Pantley and a website with excerpts. She bf and co-slept and looked for solutions. It is actually lots of tips for you to make your own plan rather than one set way.

Good luck. It will get better.

quirkychick · 01/04/2008 22:15

here

CoteDAzur · 01/04/2008 22:25

To answer your question: No, you don't have to wait until 12 months before tackling his sleep problems. In fact, the longer you wait from this point unwards, the harder it will be, for babies resist change more and more as they grow up.

What did you try to get your DS to sleep through the night since the last time you posted, if anything?

sparklyshoos · 01/04/2008 22:27

we tried some of the suggestions in NCSS and they did work. DS was the same - he's now 13mo and just woken for another feed (BF until his 1st b'day) and will hopefully now go through the night - but not guaranteed!

You are not doing anything wrong and you're doing a fab job to still be feeding until now! We tried everything to help DS sleep to no avail - he wasn't going to do it until he was ready. I felt like I must have got everything wrong, but in every other aspect, DS is so happy and content. It's taken time to accept i made the best choices for us as a family and he's secure and loved. We couldn't do CC - not for us, I know some find it helps - and resigned ourselves to night wakings until at least 2yrs, then one day we woke up at 7am! he'd just slept through. It's up and down, but it does start to get better slowly.

Can you take him out in his pram when he's nearly sleepy in the day so he breaks the association with feeding at least for naps?

Once he's moving around more he will start to get more tired and also, will start taking in more food in the day soon, so it really will get better soon, honestly!

Umlellala · 01/04/2008 22:32

I second the book even if it doesn't totally 'solve' it, it is very likely to improve nights - and it is very reassuring and has lots of practical advice... Get it from the library!

My advice would be to stop thinking of it as doing anything wrong that needs fixing, rather that you might want him to learn a new skill (of self-settling/settling without boob). Then you can think about how you would like him to learn the new skill - gradually (the book has lots of ideas). We teach our children new things and skills all the time - potty training isn't about fixing something wrong rather introducing a new idea... and we don't usually do it suddenly or harshly iykwim.

It really, really will get better. Think I decided to actively try to help dd sleep better at about 8 months and it did improve things - although we didn't get the whole night (and reverted to easiest option several times). It improved gradually and we weaned her off all night feeds, happily, at approx. 12 mths. Now, she is 23mths and she happily goes to bed and settles very quickly and easily - although still rarely sleeps through the whole night (whole other kettle of fish - me being pregnant etc etc).

GOOD LUCK

Original poster
Washersaurus · 01/04/2008 22:37

Since posting before I have stopped feeding him to sleep before putting him to bed in the evening. He is now usually a little bit awake when I put him down to sleep, but the past few nights he has been crying as I put him down and I have to send DH up to settle him as he won't settle for me unless I let him nurse to sleep.

He always wakes at around 11-midnight for a feed though and will not go back in his cot so ends up just sleeping next to me - which would be fine but he still wakes up every 45-60mins in need of comfort!

Up until this week he had been having regular naps in the morning and at lunchtime and usually is able to get off to sleep on his own after being put down (not today though despite my best efforts )

I will try and get hold of a copy of the no cry sleep solution as I have seen it recommended by lots of people.

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Original poster
Washersaurus · 01/04/2008 22:39

The tiredness just makes everything so difficult to cope with and I have been so grumpy because of it.

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shreddies · 01/04/2008 22:41

I like the NCSS too. We had exactly the same situation, DS waking up every hour or so, refusing to nap, it was exhausting.

One thing that would probably make quite a difference if you want to keep co-sleeping would be to night wean - although you might not want to do that yet. I did it when DS was about 13 months and it was surprisingly easy.

The suggestions in the NCSS will help you get him to sleep through the evening, and that will be amazing for you, it's very wearing not getting a break then. DS still wakes up once or twice in the night, but that is just about bearable. I think he's just a crap sleeper, and there's not much more we could have done about it

Original poster
Washersaurus · 01/04/2008 22:47

I thought things would improve now that he is crawling all over the place and standing up, but it seems to be getting worse rather than better.

DS1 was nothing like this (there probably wouldn't have been a DS2 if he was )

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VeniVidiVickiQV · 01/04/2008 22:51

oh I utterly sympathise. DS was like this. I went demented (quite literally) through lack of sleep. He just seemed to never want to sleep from birth - and when he did he'd wake so easily.

It got to 10.5 months and I was at the end of my tether. I sought lots of advice on here, and the upshot was that I wasnt going to leave him to cry it out, but, I had to do something.

So, firstly, we moved out of the room into our new loft bedroom. He'd been sharing a room with us up until then.

I camped out in his room, got pillows, blankets etc. Every time he cried, I stayed with him, rubbed his head, or tummy or hands through the bars of the cot, but didnt speak except to say "its night night time now". The first night, he cried on and off for 3 hours. It was knackering!

The next night - he stirred once, went back to sleep and that was it!

Sounds easy - it wasnt. I'd really got to the point where things had to change. But, I had a plan, I stuck to it, whilst making sure he felt comforted and I felt comfortable.

Good luck with it.

Original poster
Washersaurus · 01/04/2008 22:59

Thank you, it is reassuring to know that others have been through it and come out the other side IYKWIM.

I just couldn't leave him to cry; and there is DS1 to think about too anyway - I don't want his brilliant sleep pattern interrupted.

Unfortunately, we only have 2 bedrooms so until he can sleep through the night, he will have to stay in our room.

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VeniVidiVickiQV · 01/04/2008 23:05

Yes, that was our problem too. WE only had 2 bedrooms. I couldnt leave him to cry either, which is why I felt the compromise of being there, but not picking him up out of his cot, or feeding him was better than doing nothing, or leaving him.

Original poster
Washersaurus · 01/04/2008 23:10

Hmm, if I am there he will cry and cry until I pick him up though.

Oh there he goes again....suppose I shall go off to bed with restless baby then

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VeniVidiVickiQV · 01/04/2008 23:17

Oh i know. It's hard. It's not a decision I took lightly at all. But, I'd just been diagnosed with PND, was taking AD's and I really needed to fix it.

If you dont feel ready for it, then that's fine. No point doing anything you dont feel comfortable with.

CoteDAzur · 02/04/2008 09:36

To each their own and all that, but if I were in your shoes, my priority would be to solve this situation.

What we did was similar to VVV's - stopped night feeds, and when DD woke up for a feed, DH went to put her back to sleep. He did whatever he could, really, shh/pat, rock, sing, etc to get her to sleep without a feed. First night nobody got much sleep. Second night DD went back to sleep in 10 min or so at each waking, and she slept through the third night. And every night since then.

Original poster
Washersaurus · 02/04/2008 15:59

Well, I fed him at 11ish when he woke up last night and just put him in bed next to me (as that is where he ends up by 1am anyway), and he slept through until about 5.30am - which is remarkable for him!

I feel a little better for having had a few hours uninterrupted sleep last night, but won't get my hopes up for the same tonight.

I need to get this sorted as DS1 will be potty training soon (hopefully) and I will need energy and patience to deal with that, and it would be nice to get DS2 out of our bed (and room) so we can resume our sex life at some point.

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VeniVidiVickiQV · 02/04/2008 18:37

They really know how to pick their moments dont they

Original poster
Washersaurus · 02/04/2008 19:52

OK, I take it back about potty training DS1; tonight he got his padded toilet seat insert thing stuck around his neck and wee'd in my bedroom cupboard

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CoteDAzur · 02/04/2008 20:02

Well, at least you can still smile about these things

I was so knackered after only four months of sleep deprivation that I was hallucinating while driving the car (saw people jumping on the road from right and left). We stopped night feeds at this time, according to the advice of DD's paediatrician (Best advice, EVER, by the way)

Original poster
Washersaurus · 02/04/2008 20:08

Gawd, I find it difficult to get through some days but haven't started seeing things YET!

DS2 does still seem really hungry when he wakes at 11/12ish, so I think I should continue with that feed but try to cut out the other night feeds, which seem to be more for comfort than nutrition...it is just finding the strength and energy to do it that is the problem

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CoteDAzur · 02/04/2008 20:16

It's normal that he is hungry in the nightfeeds - that is the pattern of feeding he is now used to. If you cut out the night feeds, he will compensate the next day by eating/drinking more and will not be hungry the following night.

I used to live in a Muslim country where people would wake up at 2 AM in the month of Ramadan, eat loads, then go back to bed and eat nothing the next day until sunset. Guess what happens after 30 days of this? They wake up more or less at 2 AM, with rumbling tummies. Once you get in the habit of eating at certain times, it is normal that you will be hungry at those times. A baby is no different. You just need to change his habit, if you wish to sleep a full night, one of these days

Again, to each their own, but if I were you, I would do this quickly, because teething will start pretty soon and you will have a much harder time with sleep habits once your DS starts teething.

Original poster
Washersaurus · 02/04/2008 20:25

Oh, he started teething months ago...he already has 4 teeth!

I see what you are saying about feeding patterns, I had never thought about it sensibly like that.

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morningpaper · 02/04/2008 20:27

In fact, the longer you wait from this point unwards, the harder it will be, for babies resist change more and more as they grow up.

I really strongly disagree with this - lots of people find that their children improve with age.

CoteDAzur · 02/04/2008 20:42

Wow, so many teeth! I hope he isn't using your nipples to grind his teeth against

CoteDAzur · 02/04/2008 20:53

morningpaper - You are right, children improve with age. Once they are 4 years old, they are easier than when they are 1, for example. They can tell you what is wrong, they understand when you explain things to them, they are more social, etc.

However, (and you can disagree to your heart's content on this, but it is still true) habits of smaller babies are much easier to change than habits of older babies. Stopping dummy use at two months is much easier than doing it at 8 months, which is still MUCH easier than doing it at 12 months. Introducing a new food is much easier at 8 months than at 1 year, and near-impossible at 2 years.