8 months on and still no sleep; this definitely IS NOT a phase!

[Washersaurus]

I last posted in desperation about this a couple of months ago I think....

DS2 hasn't slept properly for 8 months (since birth), what the hell do I do with him?

He is totally unable to resettle himself without me letting him comfort suck (bf). What have I done wrong and how on earth do I fix it?

I don't mind co-sleeping or feeding at night but was sort of hoping that by now he would have grown out of it a little. He wakes and nurses around 4/5 times each night, and for the past few days he won't even go down for a daytime nap (despite being really really tired). He just cries until I give in and go and pick him up, and then will fall asleep on me whilst feeding or in the buggy.

I liked the co-sleeping article that someone linked to by Dr Jay Gordon, but do I really have to let DS2 get on with it until 12 months before tackling his sleep problems?

Any advice appreciated

However, (and you can disagree to your heart's content on this, but it is still true)

habits of smaller babies are much easier to change than habits of older babies.
Stopping dummy use at two months is much easier than doing it at 8 months, which is
still MUCH easier than doing it at 12 months.

Much easier on the parents but not necessarily much easier on the baby (or in its best interests)

Introducing a new food is much easier at 8 months than at 1 year,
and near-impossible at 2 years.

you just made that bit up, my 2 year old tries new foods all the time

I started writing a longish essay, then realized it is pointless. You have your feelings about what is easy for a baby, and I don't care to try to change it. What is the point?

I am happy your 2 year old tries new foods. Mine and all her friends are stuck with whatever foods they liked from six months ago.

Am with morningpaper here - you can change habits in adults so why not in older babies?

Maybe I am lucky in that dd has understood a lot quite early but I have found it much easier to change habits and deal with night-time behaviour the older my little girl gets as she understands more and gets concepts. So I can use reason and logic more. Have never found hearing her cry easy so for me, it has been easier when I know for definite she is crying because I have said NO - and not worrying that maybe she is crying because she is ill/teething etc etc. This gets easier as she gets older.

This is why I chose to drop nightfeeds when I thought she understood - 'you can have some water - no milk because it's dark. you can have milk when it's light' (about 13 mths from memory?)

Mind you, I am used to dealing with naughty teenagers so find the consequence/discipline aspect a doddle whereas babies are just going by instinct - eek! (FWIW if the next one is anything like WakeUpAllNight dd I plan to do LESS sleep 'training' than this and just co-sleep, nightfeed and enjoy! )

When I say 'enjoy' what I mean is grin and bear it!!

PS my 2 year old tries loads of new things including food - isn't that called learning?

I don't want to 'sleep train' him as such, I just want him to be able to resettle himself. As I said in my op, I don't mind night feeding or co-sleeping, as he still seems to need it (or does he?) - even if he isn't really hungry, he certainly still seems to need the contact.

I don't necessarily believe it gets harder either, I think sleep issues just require a different approach as they get older.

Sorry, didn't mean to offend- I used the word 'training' lightly as I haven't really done much this time just gently tried to teach new skills... but def had the feeling I should be doing more lots. I think lots of my rl friends are surprised when I say I would do less rather than more next time (thinking I would go down CC route next time). You have to do what you feel comfortable with and not feel guilty... Out of interest, did your first sleep well then? Do you think babies are just different or is it something different you are doing? ( I ask because next one is on the way... and am starting to think all my 'plans' are going to have to go out of the window!)

I do empathise really I do. A few months ago (18mths-ish age), I found a notebook where I had written down dd's sleep wakings at about 5 months... and they were pretty much exactly the same (on paper.) Felt very depressing although in my head I know she WAS much better because she does settle herself, and enjoyed going to bed etc etc...

Anyway, just want to say there are lots of very very tired mums here who do understand.

PS dd self-settled occasionally from birth, better after doing a kind of gradual thing from NCSS, but mostly after we put her in a bed at 15mths. Completely random and nothing to do with us .

Washersaurus, I too thought I had done something wrong with my son because he wouldn't sleep through. He's now 2y 2m and had only slept though for the last month or so, although this can be disrupted by achy teeth or sickness.

If you want to change your baby's sleep patterns, then good luck to you and I really hope whatever you choose works for you, but for what it's worth, I don't think there's any shame in accepting that your child is slower to do this particular trick than other babies, but will get there in the end. I have consoled myself by thinking that this as the price I pay for having a happy, confident, active and loving little boy-he just needs extra at night.

I night-weaned DS at 10 months - the same time as VVVQV actually! - he would still wake up despite knowing that no milk was forthcoming, but his sleep did improve enormously as a result. But when he was 15 mo he started sleeping through and is now a great little sleeper.

Now DD on the other hand.... aaaaargh!