Is it pointless to save discipline for "when we get home"

[thornrose]

My dd 8yo is often very angry in the mornings (she has Aspergers but feel this isn't especially relevant here).
We have days where we walk to school with her muttering, swearing quietly at me, refusing to hold my hand etc etc.
We just need to get to school so I walk along doing my best to ignore it but threaten "when we get home" no tv, no computer time etc. Once we get home many hours later and she's sweetness and light again it seems inappropriate to punish her so long after the fact.
I'm not actually the pushover I'm coming across as but it's one aspect of her behaviour I just don't have a clue how to deal with! Anyone willing to say what they would do in this situation?

Not really, you know what girls are like, very cliquey! She is very much on the outskirts but apparently happy that way, but not really if that makes sense. Outside of school she has some lovely cousins and friends' children who "get" her and are great little role models in how to be friends.

Windy, that was a very kind thing you said earlier by the way, I just re-read it sorry I didn't acknowledge it at the time.

Ok my contact lenses are sticking to me eyes, never a good sign, I have to go to bed! Avenanap you've been a superstar, given me lots to think about, send me the bill!

That's good. Pets are a good idea, they encourage a child to have something to care about (other than themselves). The caring about others thing does not normally kick in until they reach teenage years so I would not be too concerned about this. I was recommended a good book called the unwritten rules of friendship, it is for children who have problems fitting in with their peers, maybe they are too bossy or shy. It has srtategies that the parents can use to help. It's not aimed at children with aspergers though and it does say that specialist help should be sought if the book does not work. My ds does not have aspergers but has a trait as he is very gifted. I have used the book with him and it does work. It may not with your daugter though but it's probably worth a shot.
CAMHS should be able to help. I would also take her to see the GP, explain that she wakes up alot (stretch the truth a bit), she wakes up exhausted and it has affected her behaviour and causes the whole family problems. She needs a referral for a sleep assessment. You could have a chat to the school aswell and see if they would be prepared to let her go in later so that she can have a good sleep. Do you have a routine? Bath, hot chocolate then bed? This should help her to relax.

Do you understand her?

Oh my goodness Thornrose! You could be describing me and my own 8yo dd1 - exactly! (except the Aspergers.)

I can find no real pattern to what triggers dd1's outbursts. I shall be watching this post eagerly for good tips because for me, things are getting to the point that I dare not take her out some days! It is also getting in the way of my relationship with her now. The cumulative effect of her bad behavior over the years is weighing me down and the older she gets, the more devastating and embarrassing I find her behavior.

My dd1 is a true Jeckyll and Hyde! She is an angel, on the whole. She is impeccably polite and well spoken, helpful, attentative, thoughtfull, ... People often comment on how wonderful she is. But, every now and then (about twice a month) she will become a horrible, vile, violent, spitting, hitting, swearing, hateful, angry, monster! There seems to be no real rhyme or reason for these sudden outbursts, sometimes she will wake up in a foul temper and explode over wonky tights or itchy clothes or some such trivial thing, other times she will wake up in a foul temper but is okay. When she explodes, anything I do or say is like food to her flames - its like she eats the chaos she creates, and with relish!

I have noticed that she is more likely to be awful when she hasn't slept well (she is not a great sleeper, and is often up and about by 6am), when she is hungry, when she is poorly and when she needs the loo. I have also noticed that when I am feeling tired and grumpy she is more likely to blow-up, I don't know if this is because I am not as good with her and so she becomes annoyed with my manner, or if it is because I am slower at spotting/reacting to her triggers. But I can't spend my life pandering to her whims, there has to be a point that she can spot her own triggers, before they trigger anything - surely she should notice that she is hungry or thirsty, or tired or feels poorly (she will never say when she feels ill - I have to deduce it from all the other 'possible triggers'). And surely there must be a point at which she is able to positively adapt her behavior when people around her are grumpy or are having a bad day!

Hi Foggy. I have recommended a book to Thornrose, I suggest this for you aswell. Please be aware of the hormonal changes that go in in a childs body around the age of 8 (maybe a bit younger/older for some children). She must learn that, bad temper or not, she is not allowed to treat you this way, it is not acceptable. She should tell you when she is tired/hungry/fed up/thirsty ect as she can not go through her life being nasty. You need to help her with this. Have you tried sitting down and explaining the consequences of her actions? Does she know how much it upsets you and disgusts you? This behaviour should not be tolerated. Does she do any sport? Martial arts are good because they teach discipline and self control. You need to come up with strategies to help her. Try and get the book from the library (or it's £8 from Amazon, sell it on it it does not work) as this has some in it. Children don't normally learn how to respect the feelings of others until their teens so you will have to tackle this now I'm afraid. Have you tried looking at her in the eyes, putting your hands on her shoulders and saying no, this behaviour is upsetting me and it is not acceptable?

My ds doesn't have a dx of AS but is in 'high risk' category. He is hard work in the morning, every morning! I recently borrowed a book from the library called, 'People with autism behaving badly.' by John Clements which I would recommend. It helps the parent to identify the behaviours that you most want to help your child with and set out strategies to deal with them.

My son has full on ASD so i know I am talking apples and oranges here butthought I would add my experience in.
He finds it very very difficult to express the things that are bothering him and so just hits bad behaviour as a vent.
I have found expressing to him that he is upset really helps. If he is shouting and aggressive and I can remain calm and say " you are very cross xx. You are upset and angry. can mummy help?" that seems to help difuse his anger.
He is rarely able to express what is wrong but my offering recognition that he is out of sorts seems to put us back on the same side IYSWIM.
I also have a star chart system for him that makes him hugely motivated to be compliant at difficult times. Could you and DD perhaps make her a star book that is transportable and every day when she copes well she gets a star towards a treat at the end of the school week?

I would also add my agreement to the sleep thing. Try and find a routine that helps. We used supplements to help DS sleep and now it isn't a problem. The full night sleep really helps.
Good luck

Hi Foggy (we have a windy and a thorny on this thread, do you mind being Foggy?) Glad I'm not alone.
I have talked to a SALT today at work about general stuff and she talked about traffic light system, red for angry / anxious, amber - about to go ape, green - ok, type of techniques to start being able to control temper and anxiety. I might give it a go.
I don't actually discuss this AT ALL with my dd. I obviously tell her off at the time but we don't talk in detail. It happens, it's awful, it stops, we move on, it happens again, ad infinitum!
My dd absorbs my mood like a sponge, I'm grumpy she's grumpy etc so when I'm a bit irritable she is and it drives me mad. I have terrible PMT,so did my mum,now I'm wondering if she is hormonal already!

Pagwatch if you come back to this thread at all could you tell me what supplements you use to help with sleep?