getting 3month old baby into a routine - pls help

[kaa0901]

any tips trying to get ds into this new bedtime routine. (after horrendous weekend decided that enough was enough and he would sleep when he was tired not when he wanted to!)

it's taken me 45mins to settle him. he moans and flails his arms and legs about spitting out his dummy. i know he's tired but he fights it and will only settle with my arm round him patting his back. i know he'll be asleep for about 45mins before the same thing happens.

i gave him his tea at 5pm and a 5oz bottle at 6pm so he was fed and warm. the plan is to give him another 6ozs at 10pm so he'll sleep through the night but the last couple of evenings he's been hungry again by 8pm and only a bottle will get him back to sleep

i want to establish a good routine without introducing habits i will only have to break later eg needing me to fall asleep

thanks

i am sorry that you feel like you have been shot down

3 months is early for solids

babies have frequent growth spurts, it is part and parcel of being a new born

babies have small tummies, which need filling frequently, and often their gut is not mature enough for solids until around 5 - 6 months at least.... signs that a baby is ready for solids is absolutely nothing to do with how settled/ unsettled they are

i was not posting what i did to make you feel bad or to criticise. not at all.

i did suggest hungry baby milk, and possible reflux and that has been also suggested by another poster

thanks lulumama - i know he is on solids early but it wasnt a decision taken lightly. hes a big baby (62cm long and 16lbs 11ozs at 14weeks) and has been on hungry baby milk since about week 10 (it has made a big difference)

it isnt reflux (i work in a gastro uni so know the signs) as hes not sick if you dont force large quantities of milk ie i've never made him finish a bottle as it just comes straight back up. we also changed him milk when he was first on formula from sma as that made him sick constantly (i did BF initially but was ill and needed medication so couldnt continue)

my main question is about getting him to go to sleep on his own without me being there. he will if i hold him but has an inbuild radar when i've left the room and wakes about 3 steps down the stairs. i really dont want to go to bed at 7pm!

HI Kaa - ok, my DS is 5 months - so this is quite recent for me. My DS now settles after about 5-10 mins max of crying or grumbling without a dummy at 6.30pm - feeds again at 10pm, then sleeps through till about 6.30pm or 7pm, maybe waking in the night on the odd occasion, but I settle him with a dummy. So, the advice I will give you is based on fact it worked for me, but obviously can't guarantee the same for you - but worth a go eh?

bottle at 6am (5ozs)
Presume this is when he's waking, so sounds right to me.

bottle & baby rice at 9.30 (probably 4ozs)

I would put him down for a morning nap earlier - e.g 8 or 8.30am if he's waking at 6am and feed him when he wakes up from this nap. Your feed time would stay the same. If your HV is saying give him solids, and you as his mum feel this is the best thing, then I would move these solids to the lunchtime feed. I'm sure you know the guidelines but you are a grown woman and can make your own decisions IMO as long has you have all the facts.

nap at 10am til 11.30 (he wakes on his own) He would now have this as his awake time.
bottle (5ozs) at 12 - this is when I would give the solids.

usually walk in pram with dogs (or out shopping) for 90mins at 1pm when he'll sleep for about 2hrs.

It might be worth trying to get him to do this sleep in his cot or basket some days to get him used to settling himself to sleep without the rhythm of being pushed. It'll be good practice for night time.

bottle at 3.30 (5ozs)
Give this earlier - nearer 2.30pm if you can.

Try putting him down for 15 mins- 30mins for a nap around 4 ish.

bottle and baby rice at 5pm - he's hungry again

Give him half his feed at 5pm, then the rest after his bath.

bath at 6pm (not every night)

worth making this a nightly ritual, IMO.

bed 7pmish
Maybe try for earlier - I don't take DS downstairs again after bathtime. He gets in his sleepsuit, has the rest of his milk and some solids (which he has just started, as he is 19lbs and is almost off the centile scale at the top end before anyone jumps down my throat!). If you do bathtime at 5.30pm you can usually eek the whole thing out into one longer bedtime routine.

bottle 8pm and 10.30 - Feed him whenever he wakes after settling him at night, lots of babes likes to cluster feed at this age, particularly at this time of night - it's completely normal.

I hope the above is of some help - it just reflects my own experience. If you want, I can tell you in more detail what my DS's daily routine is - I go back to work in a few weeks too, so really had to get him into one before that happened.

Hi Kaa - have just caught up on the posts - are you co-sleeping? If so, then some of my suggestions are redundant. I think your DS sounds like a typical 3 month DS (my DS moans and screams for me SO much more than my DD did!). He also smiles and sometimes actually laughs in my face when I go back in, so I figure, you're alright MR, and let him get on with his crying or whatever for another 10 mins - he normally gets the message by then and drops off. He is a couple of months older though...

thanks sycamoretree - will maybe move "tea" to "lunch".

i dont bath him every night as i dont always have the time esp when i will be back at work.

will try to bring the morning nap earlier and let him have half an hour about 4pm.

good luck yourself going back to work! i;m sort of looking forward to going back as i love nursing but am dreading leaving him (for all of three days a week!

we did co-sleep at the beginning but he wanted his own space at about 10weeks so he has a crib next to the bed but comes in when he has his 6am feed

Lulu isn't trying to shoot you down but it is all too common for a baby to be weaned earlier than normal to suffer with bellyahces, without screaming, just uncomfortable, you know like when you eat too much roast dinner and it feels uncomfortable? Like that rather than full blown pain.

Tbh I wouldn't expect a three month old to sleep by themselves, and certainly not to want to watch tv downstairs with their daddy.

Do you have a daytime/nighttime difference? With both of mine I wouldnt speak to them after bedtime, and every night I went though the same routine.

Bath, Feed, Bed.
After bedtime do everything in hushed tones, allow baby to go down for the night awake, but calm because theyve had a feed and bath (I think you should bath every night, it tires them out more and keeps the routine going).

When baby wakes go in try not to make eye contact and just the minimal physical contact needed to settle, dont go in unless baby actually cries, ignore moaning. Just keep doing this every night, baby will soon get used to night times being boring and for sleep.

Also in the day make it as loud and lively as possible, open the curtains when you want to get him up, that will normally be enough to allow him to wake pretty naturally, but keep the daytime lively.

HTH.

Kaa - That is very good advice from VictorianSqualor - much more eloquently put than my rambling post! Distinguishing day from night time is so important, and I reckon if you can drop anything from your current routine, it would be TV downstairs with Daddy - they get SO hooked on this type of hanging out after hours with the folks...it makes it SO much harder to put them to bed when they are fully aware of what they are missing out on downstairs...

Hey Kaa, I've got a 6 month old that seems to have a similar prob to yours, needing me (not dh - d'oh) to hold him while he sleeps []. What I do after whole bath bedtime routine is pop him in his cot and stroke etc until he's nice and relaxed then tell him (obv. understands everything I say!) that I'm just popping downstairs but will be back in a minute, then return and tidy room, popping out to put towels in batroom etc. Then just leave door oopen a crack and he'll fall asleep about 15-20 mins after being put in cot, with no crying/fussing.
Think this allows ds to know I'm there and can relax enough for tiredness to overtake, without panicing that he's all alone
hth

TwoLittleToys has a good point, the reason abbies cry is because they just want to know you're around, it doesnt have to be full present company they just need to know you'll come if they need you, that's why I always say to go in if baby cries, moaning is just liek talkign to themsleves, but actual crying means they want something.

thanks twolittletoys. its really weird as during the day he will settle himself for a nap no problem. its just at night and i dont want it to be a constant battle

dont know if its becuase its just us during the day and at night when dh is home, there's other movement in the house that he can hear and then wants to know whats going on.

i've heard that babies who nap well during the day sleep well at night and he's fantastic during the day and also once he's asleep at night, that's him but its the getting to sleep. Last night it was 9.30 before he'd go down.

might try the idea of just moving around so he can see me and hopefully that will be more like daytime naps.

We have opposite problem really, I'm now managing to get him to sleep calmly and on his own at 7-7.30pm but he's waking at 4am and will not settle unless I'm holding him. So lots of co-sleeping and a dead arm in this household. See it could be worse!...hmm actually tempted to keep him up in the evenings. Does he sleep well once he's properly asleep?

twolittletoys - gave in to him last night and he sat with me whilst i typed away until 9.30pm. once he's asleep properly he will sleep for 6hours + its the getting to sleep

Actually, [cloud of sleep depravation lifts slightly] seem to remember when ds was about 3 months, walking around with a sling until 10.30 feed when ds was finally ready to sleep alone. Seems lifetime away now (2 months!). So can be quite positive, it will pass as he gets older and a bit more settled. Also, think that as they're able to do more playing with toys, starting to roll over etc. they get a bit more tired and so sleep better overnight.

it doesnt help i'm already pregnant again so am knackered and short of patience at night

wow, that was quick! Planned?
You're prob in the 8 to 9 week dead with fatigue bit then (I didn't realise I was pregnant last Xmas and put exhaustion down to too much shopping!)

not planned but very much wanted. i had my ovary removed when i was pregnant with ds. my other ovary also has cysts (not PCOS - that would be simple!) and was told after ds that it was unlikely i would ever be able to conceive again and to accept that he would probably be an only child. so we did and never even thought about contraception. and how wrong can the docs be? - pregnant within 2months of giving birth. in fact this one is due end of aug and ds will be 1 1st oct so there will only be 11mnths between them

hence my panic about sleep routines lol

What do docs know - I went to mine because periods stopped, blood tests etc. I've got PCOS next month do another preg test am 3 months preg!