8yo dd still hasn't a clue how to get herself ready int ime for school. am so tired of having this conversation/argument

[jellybelly25]

My dd (8) has an inherent inability to get ready for school no matter what incentives/punishments she gets. I'm not expecting magic answers but I just want to vent a bit. I'm exhausted with it. We've been doing this battle since she was four, and not a fat lot has improved.

I cannot tell you how many star charts we have done...She doesn't even remember she has one half the time and nothing ever works for longer than a couple of days at best. One day is usually the limit. I can stand there going 'you won't get your star if blah blah'' or 'if you get ready quickly today you will get another star!!! WOW!!!' and she goes 'ooh ok' and looks happy, then just.... doesn't.

I feel like bombing her room to be honest. This morning I have chucked out a load of plastic animals she was fiddling with instead of getting ready, but that sort of punishment doesn't really work because she'd just fiddle with something else. I am qutie sure that if she had nothing but a bed in her room, she would find a way to fiddle with that instead of getting ready.

And standing at the door going 'it's time to go' whatever state she's in, no shoes, no bag ready etc, just doesn't hit home either. she still can't remember what she needs to do to get out

I just want to know if anyone else's child is like this at this age?

Get up fifteen minutes earlier every time she's not ready. Which means going to bed fifteen minutes earlier as well, of course. Of course it might mean you getting up at 4.30am as well, but she will - probably - crack first!

Or what about taking her to school one day exactly as she is at 8.30, or whenever you have to go. No shoes? Fine. No coat? Fine. No bag? Fine.

I also have a dipsy 7 yr old dd (she has been known to go to school minus knickers, how embarassed was crap mum when she came home in school pair which teacher gave her )I have a rigid morning routine - she has to get dressed before breakfast then washed before TV. If I let her brush her hair/ put her shoes on in front of tv it doesn't happen, she just sits goggle eyed at the screen, so we've had to insist she does this first too. I have found the only thing works is to leave plenty of time and also utilise a bit of healthy competition with her little brother.

Glad I'm not the only one with a dd whose head is in the clouds most of the time

hi by the way, new poster

My DS1 (7.6) is exactly like that. I have tried most things already mentioned on here and not much works.

The only way we get through it, started back in the days when DS2 was a baby and I was having to get DS1 ready for school, was to bring them both into our room so we can all get dressed together. I do let them watch telly as it keeps them in the room and avoids far worse distractions like elabourate games and reading books. I have tried without the telly and it is was much worse because I spent all my time going to find them as they wandered off.

I bring DS1's clothes into our bedroom and tell him to get his pyjamas off whilst I go and use the bathroom. I tell him I want him stripped off and underwear on before I get back. Doesn't often happen but he has usually made a start by taking one arm out of pjs.

I then start giving him a count down. For some reason it puts the fear of God in him when I start counting down from 10 - don't know what I said once but it must have been awful because he can't get out of his clothes fast enough and he doesn't even need a threat of anything. I then take him to the bathroom for a wash. If I stop counting though, he stops doing anything undressing so I have to pay attention! I organise his wash - I can't leave him as the floor would be flooded and he wouldn't have remembered to wash his face.

I send him back to get dressed and then wash DS2. We all go back to my bedroom and I then make sure they both get dressed. I never leave them to it until they are done. After that I send them downstairs for breakfast. DH has left out the cereal and the drinks and it usually with them for a few minutes to get them started. Usually they don't need prompting to eat (the one thing they don't need reminding about) unless DS1 has sneaked a book from somewhere.

Whilst they are doing that I get dressed, all the while shouting a time check down the stairs every few minutes. Finally I get down stairs in time for them to put on their shoes and coats and for me to give DS1 his lunch box to put in his bag(all packed the night before). I have to stand over them and every single morning I have to call DS1 back from just outside the front door to tell him to pick up his bag. Every single morning he forgets, every single morning for 3.5 years!!!

The trick is to supervise them every step of the way. I don't rely on them to do anything without me standing over them. Not too bad if I am allowed to get ready at the same time but I do sound like a drill instructor much to much of the time.

We are actually out the door in 45 mins from start to finish although the compromise is that I don't have breakfast until they are both at school/nursery. Not a problem as I am not ready before hand anyway.

Ubergeekian - normally i would agree with this approach taking them 'as they are' sort of thing but i think in this case it might not be a good idea if its going to affect Jellybelly's DD's confidence it may have the opposite effect

She WILL perhaps be able to get herself to work when she has to - perhaps. Her confidence shouldn't be dented by being dreamy in the morning - not really. She doesn't sound like she's anxious about not knowing where her school bag is, not at all, or worried about forgetting her spelling book etc.

In good time, and as required she'll work it out. Until such time, it is you as drill sergeant saying 'have you checked the list on the wall for what you need? and 'you've forgotten something - that's it your shoes' etc etc etc.

Take heart from this thread - you are NOT alone.

the only way i found to get them to get ready quicker was to have their clothes downstairs ....they eat brekkie ,wash and teeth then dress NO tv til theyre dressed (and that includes shoe and hair)

Jellybelly - can i just ask if she is like this getting dressed all the time (ie getting ready for bed, school hols, weekends etc)? or just getting ready for school?

apologies if tis has been covered already i have limited time and DS3 is throwing beans at me...

I have an 8yo ds in this category - & it seems to be such a huge category that sometimes it feels as if it includes the whole of MN! You are not alone!!

The only thing that has made any difference to my ds is utter steady predictable long-term consistency in our routine, day in day out, with only very targeted, contained, bits of the routine being his responsibility; with minute increments. And rewards, not sanctions.

So - (with apologies to anyone who's read all this here before):

• he is responsible for taking himself to the bathroom after breakfast & doing toilet/face/hands/teeth, within 6 minutes, while a kitchen timer runs. Actually he is also responsible for remembering to get the kitchen timer out too - this usually involves me doing a mad-rolling-eye-suspense-face at him (verbal reminders not allowed) until he goes "oh, er, oh, yeh" & fetches it. If he gets through the process within 6 minutes (with no reminders) he gets to write his time in red ink (if black, it means he's had to have a reminder) on a scoresheet that translates into computer time at the weekend. It sounds complicated, but it isn't, it just needs a scoresheet tacked on the fridge. And it works 9 out of 10 days now - but that is after FOUR YEARS

• he has chosen for himself to be responsible for whether his morning snack is in his bag. Excellent choice of responsibility as it carries its own inherent reward/sanction.

Overall - I'd recommend picking a tiny tiny battle & being super-patient, organised & long-termist about it. For children like these, it's not so much about learning ('cos they can't, quite) as about training. Until adolescence - as was proved by another thread, PPH is right, it tends to sort itself out then.

PS - addition to my message below - now that those two are nearly reliable we have added the challenge of Remembering To Undo Shoelaces Before Taking Off Shoes. Tiny responsibilities.

agree with Bink that many kids just can't, aren't ready, to learn this organisational stuff. It does seem alot to expect IMO. Bloody hell, I am 40 and I'm only just getting it.

I just think if you've had the same problem for years then you've been wasting your time, sorry but that's how it seems. I think in that case surely you just have to accept that more help is needed, though of course I understand there are other demands. But I do think sometimes it's easy to expect way, way too much.

As Bink said no doubt 'training' works eventually but also I think does doing things as a team and trusting that, as Bink also says, things will sort themselves as the child becomes adolescent ( or 40 )

lol @ tizzy's dd going to school with no knickers!! And hello.

My goodness, I can't thank everyone individually (what is this an oscar speech?) but really, this has helped, and to everyone else who has a dc like mine, sympathies!!

Mind you, when I read about psychomum's 5-child morning routine I feel a bit to be so stressed about mine...

She is like this about most things really sparkle, (beans? Baked or dried?!) there are some things she's excellent at, like packing for holiday, but UNpacking, you can forget it. I did an experiment with her bag from being at my mom's last Saturday, and it sat there for four days without her unpacking. Anyway, school mornings are definitely the worst. We do come from a long line of women who are really bad at mornings... My grandma, mum, big sister and me are all hopeless too.

Training, rather than learning though, I like that. I really really want her to be sorted for secondary school. I don't want to be still having these issues then. I'm perfectly prepared for her to forget stuff, most teenagers do, but I want her, in general, to be able to organise herself so the whole thing isn't just a big nightmare

My DS (7) is like this one morning a week; the morning after the late night at Beavers. All other mornings he is awake before me, and if his clothes are in the right drawer, usually dressed as well. Actually I am exaggerating a bit, because we usually have a bit of nonsense about actually getting out of the front door and into the Bl**dy carseat. Because he does get distracted very easily, and thinks that whatever bit of chat he wants to have MUST BE ANSWERED (his capitals) NOW NOW NOW BEFORE he can think about the next step. So actually I do sympathise amazingly.

But the main point is he is so much worse after a late night, although he wakes up OK, he is just not quite with-it.

So I think one answer is more sleep, and no TV in the mornings. We stopped TV (removed fuse from plug) because he was coming down in jamas and not getting dressed when told...what was worse he wouldn't bother waking me up if he could watch TV.

JB - re the cycling to school thing - she was 8 in October. Far, far too young imo.

i have a ds(9) who is just like your dd. and we have a similar routine to psychomum.

We get up very early (6.15 for me and dh , 6.30 for everyone else), and do as much as possible the night before, so there is no need to get bags etc ready in the morning. All bags/musical instruments etc are by the door. All uniforms are laid out in their bedrooms, the breakfast things are on the table. The children know they have to be downstairs for 7am, and are pretty good at doing this (with a small amount of nagging).

Unfortunately I am still getting the bags ready for ds and I know at some stage he will have to take responsibility for this, but I can't take the stress yet!

I do find he comes down half dressed, and if I send him back up for his tie or whatever he gets side tracked. And that's when I start screeching

lol screeching, yeah thats a good way to describe it. well this morning was much better, went to bed and got up much earlier and was ready, bar a couple of things (hair looked like a haystack) on time. so this was good. however, i really need to judge it in about a week, when the 'new approach' novelty has worn off for her.

hmm yes i would definitely not be happy about my dd riding to school... although given her disposition she would probably end up in cardiff or something (we live in the midlands).

I've been moaning about the same thing for years, but we've got to school on time for the last few weeks. We've turned getting ready into a kind of 'role play' and ds loves it. Don't know how long it will last for!

have read most of thread but not all...

have you thought about getting her dressed while she is still asleep?

i know it sounds mad but my old boss used to do that with her dd, as she just couldn't bear the battles day after day.

otherwise i agree with mercy - you need more time in the morning, you need to be ready before they even wake up!

So JellyBelly, where are all these 8 year olds who can get themselves organised for school in the mornings then?

I dunno! It's a perception that I have! I am assuming that some of the people who have offered advice do have children who can now get themselves ready...

Also, when I have spoken to some people at school about it, a few have said they are in the same position, but others look at me like i'm mad and go, 'oh well we must be really lucky then because so-and-so is brilliant, he packs all his things by himself, etc etc'.

Dear Jellybelly - Reading your post made my jaw drop, I had to check that I wasn't you. My daughter is 8 nearly 9 and you have described her to a 'T' - including violin situation (which we have abandoned for the time being). She is delightful - imaginative and clever - I am sure that she has her mind on much higher things than putting her bloody clothes on. I too have tried most of the normal things that seem to work for others with little to show for it. It is immensely frustrating at times. You have made me feel that I am not alone and positively smug that we get to school at all, Cheers

Well done on this morning Jellybelly

If it's any consolation I was almost out of breath with all the shouting and running around the house this morning!

Up until about 10 days ago we were having horrendous mornings with nearly 7yr old dd. In the end I have arranged with a neighbour that if it looks like dd is going to make ds1 late for school, I can send ds1 to the neighbour a 8.30 who will make sure he's there on time, and then dd will be as late as she makes herself. I told dd's teacher about this arrangement, and told the teacher not to be nice if it happened.

Having made these arrangements I told dd about them. Have had a fantastic run of mornings since. The threat of missing out on a perceived treat - i.e. being taken to school by a friend's parent - has worked wonders!

Shame you don't have a 5yr old ds to use shamelessly to achieve your goals!

I am loving this thread.

I've found that the countdown thing helps because it gives them a specific amount of time to focus for, and gives them a sense of urgency. If they haven't finished by the end, then no sticker. No sticker = don't get to choose a program to watch after school.

I have a 6yo ds who is exactly how everyone else has described their children. I'm breathing a huge sigh of relief. Except for the knowledge that he may still be that way when he is 8 or 9 .

I also have two 4yos who are worse.

And a 3mo old baby.

My dd is not bad (unless the TV is on) it's my ds who is the distracted one. But we have the major advantage of the school being only a 5 mins walk away (and no babies to consider). I must admit I wouldn't dream of not packing the children's bags for them. ds will often forget to get anything out of his bag once at school, so I know he wouldn't get it right in the morning - he has got time out for not handing his homework as a result of this, but it doesn't really make any difference. He is dyslexic and poor organisation can go with that so I just have to accept that's how it is. Until a few months ago I physically got them dressed (until dh found out and had a go at me!) just because it was so much easier. Then we did no coming downstairs for breakfast until dressed (with everythig laid out for them), now it's no TV until you are ready. I am not good in the mornings either, so we go for routine:
7.15 I get up, shower etc
7.30 wake the kids up and then go and make dd's lunch
7.45 kids should be eating breakfast (I make eggs - nice and quick to eat!)
by 8 (in theory) they should be dressed, and can have half an hour to watch TV/play on the computer whilst I run around doing all the things I have forgotten (I am also very disorganised!)
8.40 we leave for school
9.11 I am on the train to work.

The half an hour leeway is very important because it reduces my stress, and allows for accidental interesting conversations etc.

The other thing that has really made a difference recently is having dd's hair cut into a bob which she can now brush, doesn't need tying up, and most importantly doesn't turn into a tangled haystack!