I am truly at my wits end with DD's (4.6) behaviour, don't know what else to do except sit in the corner and cry...............

[StaceyBranning]

DD (4.6) since Xmas has become increasingly hard work. She just says no to me all the time no matter what I ask to do. IAt first I got angry and shouted but this just made us both worse. DH suggested trying to find out what was wrong. She is usually a very helpful, polite sweet little girl, she occasionally has tantrums but that's all they were and she soon go tover them.
Now she won't stay in her bedroom and most nights (after being taken back upsatirs about 10 times by Me and DH) she doesn't go to sleep until 10pm ish. I know a lot of it stems from being tired.
We have a routine of 7pm bed and 7:30pm lights out, she has a story then bed.
During the day she just says no to me all the time (but smiles and does anything daddy says) and says things like 'I am not going to to and you can't make me!' I am currently suffering with chronic headaches and am having a brain scan tomorrow and have had various other tests to find out whats wrong. i know my patience is not great at the moment but I am really trying to be understanding and understand why she has turned into this rude little girl. We use a reward chart but that seems to be making her worse becasue if she doesn't get enough stars she kicks off. I try taking toys away but she just shrugs ger shoulders and says she doesn't care.
The only way i can get her to stop is when i am in a ball on the floor sobbing my eyes out.
Aren't they supposed to be 13 when they develop and attitude
Please help, any advice would be appreciated as I don't know what else to.

I think that to a great extent it's the whole having to be so good at school, that leads to them going to the other extreme at home. We have a minor version of the bedtime battle going on here with DD1 (just 5). They do definitely seem to get an 'attitude' at this age - particularly girls I think.

If she gets into a rage, one thing I've seen suggested on here, and I have tried to use with DD1 is "sniff the cake and blow out the candles" - sort of yoga breathing for kids! If you can see she's getting angry, try to remind her that if she can do that (i.e. big breath in through her nose, then puff out through her mouth) it may help - and you can reinforce by telling her that you're using it yourself when you can feel yourself getting cross.

Hope the brain scan today has gone okay.

Thanks Bram, it's at 1:10pm and I can't eat four hours before so I am on the computer trying to keep my mind off food. I don't usually eat through teh morning but now they have told me I can't I want to stuff my face!!!

Oh no! Have you got a stash of chocolate for afterwards?!

Oh yes!!!!

I think it's a combination of tiredness, school and your health problems. I bet she has picked up on more than you think regarding your headaches/scan and is scared stiff. Children at this age have incredibly vivd imaginations and she may be imagining all sorts of awful things, death etc.

Also at this age IME they tend to hurt those that they love and feel secure with, hence why you are taking the brunt of it.

Tiredness will exacerbate the problem as I'm sure you know! You said you return her 10 times or so; after that does she stay there? She may be worried about you going somewhere when she goes to bed, could you try lying down quietly with her for 15 minutes after her story, with the lights out, and tell her that if she is quiet and still you will stay with her but if she gets up and messes about you will go downstairs.

It can be so trying at this age and if you are feeling lousy it's so much worse. I hope your scan goes well.

Thanks sidge

Stacey, I've had similar problems with my dd (4.9). Our usual discipline routines weren't working, then I read (on RedMist's thread) about the Unconditional Parenting methods.

I'm not entirely convinced by the whole book, but some of the methods have worked really well with dd. Lots of gentle talking, asking questions, hugs. Turns out she's worried by school, but it took about 2 weeks for it all to come out. In your case, perhaps she's worried by you being ill, plus school is still new, etc.

will find a link to a suitable thread and be back.

have a look here to start with

hope your scans have gone okay.

I feel very sorry for you. DD is only just 4, so maybe I've got that to come. Tiredness definitely is a big factor in bad behaviour. With both dc's a just taking them back to bed without talking helps. I've also found that my dc's stay in bed at bedtime when I pay more attention to them during the bedtime routine: i.e. chatting to them about their days and possible worries so they've let all of that out before lights out time. DD has actually started asking for the light to stay on and DS has slept with lights on for ever. Maybe that's an idea.
I've also found that when dc's are starting to get out of hand, it helps to stop, take a deep breath and have a very good look at the way I am parenting. Most of the time I come to the conclusion that I have started paying less and less attention to them. Their behaviour is usually my cue to start spending a bit more time with them playing, drawing, doing jigsaws. It's amazing what half an hour of undevided attention can do to their behaviour for the rest of the day.
Tantrums and the like I just ignore. I leave her where she is (ds doesn't get them) and just walk away. I tell her I wont listen to her until she has stopped screaming. Usually she soon gets the message and calms down.
Good luck with lo and your test. All the best.

Try to remember all the positive parenting techniques, a la Tanya Byron from Little Angels etc. Try to completely ignore all the rudeness and back chat and praise anything positive. Use the "ask once nicely, once firmly and then if she still doesn't do as you've asked time out" strategy. Don't put her in her room for time out as theres too much potential for breaking things etc. Instead use the bottom step or some other similarly boring place. If she gets up keep putting her back. Above all gives lots of praise and attention when shes being good, and try and ignore everything else. Easier said than done I know. Good luck.

Well we had a good weekend all in. We went shopping together and because i gave her a list of stuff before we went she was so concerneed with finding everything on her list (we sat and drew pictures of all the things she had to find in the supermarket) that she wasn't bugging me for sweets etc and getting us both cross. So after giving myself a huge pat on the back for being brilliant I then porceeded to watch a film with her, popcorn and a cuddle on the sofa. This then left me free to get on with chores. We baked a cake on Sunday and she even offered to set the table for dinner. Even DH was shocked!! But come bedtime we hit the usual brick wall and ended up in a hige row over bedtime which DH then had to come and difuse

Have watched this thread with interest, as dd1 (5.9) has been like this for about 18mths now. We live in Australia so this is the start of her 2nd year of school, and we have contributed a lot of her behaviour to moving countries at age 4.6 and then starting school 3mths later. She really missed the UK for about 6mths and cried regularly about wanting to go back but once she settled into school that has improved. She can still fly into a rage though at the drop of a hat, and I can't always rely on her behaviour to be good, like I could up to age 4. Her sister was born when she was 3.8 so I wondered if that was a part of it, but I think her personality just developed some more at around 4, and she that she is a talkative, sometimes argumentative child, who is most of the time well behaved. But I'm still trying to learn ways of managing the tantrums and rages, without losing it myself
Sounds like sleep is a definite factor for your dd SB, has she always had trouble going to bed/sleep?

I had similar issues with my stepson when I first started dating dh. He was a similar age and would have stupendous temper tantrums over all sorts of things. I found that the most effective thing to do was completely ignore him. He very quickly realized that he wasn't getting attention from me and stopped doing them and learned to express himself in a different way to me. He however, continued to do the temper tantrums for his mother, grandparents and teachers as they would all react to them.

It sounds like you are having a tough time...good luck on the tests. If you have any energy left, try ignoring (totally and completely...no cheating) your dd next time she disobeys you or throws a tantrum. Continue on with whatever you had planned, turn your back to her and ignore. Refusing to go to bed is pretty boring when no one is fighting back.

I find it hard to be strong and ignore her, when I have done it she gets worse, she screams until she can't breathe and as she is asthmatic I have to try and calm her down. DH is better at this than me as he isn't usually the one she is mad with. Her just cuddles her until she calms down. I find it hard to do this as I feel I am just saying her behaviour is acceptable and she can misbehave and I will still cuddle her.

I have decided to hand my notice in at my evening job so I can be there in the evenings at bedtime.

I need to tackle this head-on, wish me luck

When she is really testing me and I am at boiling poimnt she kicks off with 'don't be cross with me' by which point it is far too late to be anything but cross. The only thing has actually stoppped her in her tracks was me breaking down in tears in front of her.

I will make a real effort to try the distraction technique as I think that might work. Also, i hadn't thought about making her WANT to stay in bed it has always been 'you WILL stay in bed because I'm your Mother and I say so'

Thanks for the advise, will give it a try.

dd is 4 (five at the end of this month) and started school in september. i am also having problems with her behaviour as are some of the moms at school with their daughters.

dd is calming a little now but a couple of weeks ago was walking out of the door saying she was going to live at her friends!!!!!

i was standing there in shock cos it was like she was 4 going on 14.

i think it is boundary testing etc but we have just not budged on certain things and it seems to have calmed. we would also had a problem in her going to bed but not going to sleep but we told her we would start turning her light off (she has a night light on) to help her go to sleep and that sorted that one.

If you do end up losing your rag and telling her to get to her room you can't send her somewhere that has lots of toys, she's just going to think it's a party! I was told once by my mum that I flew into a rage and broke some of my toys, so she got really annoyed, got my favourite one and crush it right in front of my face! I was so shocked and gutted that the toy was broken that I didn't do that again, she said it was because it was broken on her terms, not on mine, that I minded, which sounds sensible. The fact that I then had no toys and she didn't replace them for a very long time also had an impact!

I actually remember two other things that she did to me, one was that I was always really greedy and never shared my food, we had chips from the chippy one day and she asked if she could have one, and I told her to go away and get off my chips! So she made me eat every single one of them, it was an adult portion and I was about 5. I was there for over three hours, they were manky and she made me eat every single one, I NEVER told her she couldn't have something of mine ever again!

The last one I remember was me thoroughly pushing her buttons in the car one day when she was driving, I was in the front seat opening and shutting the glove box, open shut open shut, she told me a number of times that I shouldn't do that because if she stopped suddenly I'd hit my head. Anyway in the end she got so pissed off that she stamped her foot on the brakes and shot me straight into the glove box, which of course hit my head! She said she felt really guilty afterwards but she never showed it, and I was as good as gold in the car since then!

Obviously I don't admit wounding your child, but sometimes you doing something totally unexpected is what will catch their attention, just asking and asking or shouting and shouting ends up becoming so normal that it has no effect at all.

You are not alone. I have been having the same attitude for a few months now from my DD who has just turned 5. She is good as gold for her grandparents but so cheeky to me until DP steps in then she wants me to defend her. About a month ago after trying naughty steps, taking toys away, shouting, threatening etc etc and finding that nothing worked I took the advice of SUPERNANNY and bought a reward chart for behaviour. This seems so far to be working, unless its just until the novelty wears off, but the cheekiness is less and she is more helpful and polite, as she used to be. It may be worth a try unless you have done it already...the chart i have, she gets a star for each good task but misses one if naughty. If she completes a full day she gets a small reward ie cake/sweet and a full 7 days maybe a book or something...good luck!