Can anyone help me with my 9yr old, please, please some practical advice!!!

[fartmeistergeneral]

I'm not very well known on here, so I hope this isn't overlooked, I'll keep bumping...

I have a 9 yr old ds who is driving me mad. He's not 'naughty' or 'bad' - he's just so annoying and irresponsible that for me, it's reached crisis point.

I know it seems trivial, but his behaviour leaves me drained. When I ask him a question,he answers with a silly response 'I know you are but what am i?' or something equally as ridiculous - then I have to repeat the question and tell him I want a serious reply etc etc. He constantly bugs his little brother (7) by poking, putting his face right up to his, silly faces, talks and sings all over him etc. If we need to get out the house, he goes all floppy and falls about on the floor laughing etc (usually with the approval of his brother who is enjoying the scene).

He has NO sense of responsibility whatsoever. This morning I gave him a cheque for his dinner money and told him to put it in his pocket. 15 mins later we are ready to go to school and he doesn't know what he has done with the cheque and I have to write another one.

Then it's the usual stuff - 'put your shoes on.......put your shoes on........did you put your shoes on? well,, put them on then!!' ALL THE TIME.

I know that this is turning into a vicious cycle with him bugging me to the end of my tether and me reacting badly and I can see us becoming estranged. But I just don't know how to turn it around. I know you are supposed to ignore certain kinds of behaviour, but if he's bugging his brother what do I do?

I'm quite sure I'm making his behaviour worse - what is it, a call for attention?

It's not the worst behaviour I've seen on this forum, but on a day to day basis, when I feel our relationship is deteriorating, I feel like I need to do something NOW.

Anyone with any experience of this or advice???

I'm going to work, but will keep bumping when I come home.....

Have you tried the old favourites like star charts with rewards? We had some success with our son at about the same age.

Say something like, for every day I don't have to nag you or remind you, you get a star. Ten stars means a pizza out/new book/trip to the swimming pool/something he really wants.

does sound attention-seeking to me. Do you get time with him on his own each week? I speak as a mum of one but I know people often say on here that though it's hard logistics-wise, children with siblings really benefit from time that's just for them.

He is also behaving in quite an immature way, isn't he - perhaps you have understandably slipped into treating him as you always have - sometimes it's worth really stopping and taking stock.

A 9 year old is really maturing and able to understand some really grown up stuff. could you talk to him differently? Include him more in adults conversation? Tell him how grown up he is (even when he isn't acting it!) because if you tell kids they are lovely and well behaved and grown up they are VERY happy to believe you

Also by badgering him about shoes you are A) treating him like a toddler and B) handing him attention for that issue, on a plate. A 9 year old knows that he has to have shoes on to go out. If you set off for school he will NOT go shoeless because it would hurt and it would be cold! Instead of spending time shouting about shoes endlessly which must be SO frustrating for you, try attention on other stuff; so maybe say instead "here are your shoes. Oh, I know while you put those on tell me about (insert something here you KNOW he is interested in eg What level are you on that playstation game? or something) Then he's talking and getting your full on attention and doesn't need to arse about making an issue of shoes.

Let him take more responsibility, too. the cheque is for his lunches; only he will suffer if he loses it. Give him as much help as possible, for example only give the cheque as you are about to leave and everything else is done, and ask him "Where's a good place to put that? Where will you remember?". If he loses it he will be hungry for a day, won't he? but having had the responsibility to THINK about where he puts it will help him remember.

Hope some of that helps.

He sounds a lot like my ds at that age.

My ds is dyspraxic, so we have a lot of systems for dealing with his lack of organisation - I never ask/tell him to do more than two things at a time (even then one usually gets forgotten), lists up of what he needs to pack in his bag, things to do before school etc.

Not suggesting that your ds is dyspraxic at all - just that such systems are useful anyway for the peculiar phenomenon of "boy listening" (copyright Janh I think). They can't hold much in their heads at this age, if it's dull.

Mine also used to do the singing and silliness (there was a lot of dancing), in the end I used to say that it was fine to do it when we were just at home and not in a hurry, but doing it in the mornings or when we're trying to get out in a short time etc makes me very stressed and I Will Shout. Eventually it got through.

Rewarding good, mature behaviour with lots of attention helps too - as mine also has a sibling that loves all the nonsense and it can rapidly reach a wild crescendo unless I keep very very calm (rare!).

My ds is the same age. What punishments do you use? Woe betide him if he spoke to me like that

I agree that rewards are effective but I would use the carrot and the stick IYSWIM

Start getting ready 15 mins earlier (don't let him know) so that you have time to discipline and you're not in a mad hurry just to get out the door. Be aware that HE is the one who will feel uncomfortable if he is late for school because of his own actions (obviously not a long term solution )

I like HG's distraction techniques. But make sure you give yourself time so the pressure isn't on you.

Farmeister, I agree with Honoria, it is attention seeking behaviour, and it appears to be working!

I have the same issues with my 8 year old. So I started ignoring his 'jokes' etc. So I tell him we are leaving for school in 5 minutes and to get his coat/shoes/bag etc. I then get 5 year old dd ready and then say 'okay, let's go' to both of them. Then I open the door and go. If ds is not fully dressed, does not have his bag, lost his dinner money, tough. He will know not to mess about next time!

At 9 it is time he took responsibility for this belongings/shoes/dinner money etc. By constantly nagging him, (and by writing a new dinner money cheque) you are not giving him a chance. Leave him be, let him face the consequenses of leaving without shoes, not having school dinners, and he will soon pull himself together.

Sorry, I really don't mean to sound harsh, sorry if it comes across that way.

Oh, and with regards to the silly answers - turn away and end the conversation there and then. Do this everytime you try to talk to him and get nonsense. It will soon stop!

Thanks all of you, it's funny how you can be aware of how to solve a problem, but it's only when you see it written down that it makes absolute sense!!! I'm so aware that it's my behaviour that drives ds1's behaviour, but sometimes it's so hard to break out of that pattern.

When I picked him up from school today, I tried 100% to chat brightly and ask him all about his day, ignoring the usual nonsense. When a mini fight broke out in the house when we arrived back (ds1 bugging ds2) I distracted them both and it diffused. I was so nice and interested in him that he even picked up his school clothes and took them to his room without me having to ask!!! And about 5 minutes ago I got a big hug.

It's amazing how little things can make all the difference. I know he's just attention seeking and I guess he got positive attention from me today.

Gotta keep it up though - how hard is that going to be!!!!! Someone on here recommended getting up earlier and being less stressed in the morning, and that sounds good to me. Also, I definitely treat him like a baby and then get on at him for acting like one!! I've got to give him a bit more responsibility I suppose.

I'm knackered now from being so nice!!

hanaflower!!!

He just danced around in front of the TV when his brother was at a critical point (apparently) on his XBox game - but I remained calm and I think I dealt with it OK (although my instinct was meltdown).

Oooh i have to go out no but am going to keep an eye on this as my DS1 is the same!

This must be a boy thing because my 9yr old the same, very silly all the time always winding brother and sister up and especially acts up when we have visitors. It drives me mad too, although he is very good with my 2yr old, he completely different with her plays with her lovely and really looks out for her, has done since she was born!! they have a really tight bond for some reason...He is responding to changes we have made we let him stay up longer than others because he is the eldest and then he gets time with both me and his dad without the other children. We also quite flexible weekends with regards to bedtime as no school, when he misbehaves or doesn't take responsibilty for anything ie his jumpers at school and not doing as asked, we will make him go to bed early and/or take his tv away, this does seem to be working and is lot better for it!!

My two have always gone to bed at the same time although there's a couple of years between them - don't think I can change that now, but I would like to give ds1 some more responsibility.

I'm absolutely determined to get up earlier tomorrow and to be so organised myself that I can make more of an effort to gently ensure that THEY both get ready.

The silliness is most likely typical of this age group, but someone on this thread was right - at 9 years old they should at least be showing some signs of maturity and my ds1's behaviour screams IMMATURE!!!!

Just gotta keep smiling!!! (through VERY gritted teeth!)

BITCAT - my ds1 (and ds2 actually) are terrible when we have visitors, really embarrassing, won't come in the room, no matter who it is - then pop heads round the door for ages laughing hysterically....quite painful.

BUT, I'll deal with that behaviour further down the line - it's the day to day stuff I need to deal with now!

Sympathies - sounds exhausting and easy to see why you get into a vicious cycle of nagging and him behaving even worse. As I was reading it the word 'rewards' just kept coming into my head. He has to see that it is worth his while cooperating with you...I found smily face charts good, or jars with marbles put in for each bit of good behaviour, then a reward for reaching a certain level. But BE CONSISTENT.

Also, how about sitting down with him and writing out the house rules - try to get him to agree to them. Do this at a time when you're both rested and in good humour.

My ds is similar, and can be very wild and silly, and also inclined to go into meltdown when tings don't go well for him. He is dyslexic, and we have just had to accept that he will forget things unless they are pretty much attached to him (and then he will forget to give them to the teacher too!). In the morning we have to have a fairly rigid routine so he knows exactly what is coming next, and I am not rushing around too wildly - I don't know why but we seem to go from "plenty of time" to "oh no we are going to be late" so easily, and I do get stressed and yell a lot! We've never found sticker charts very helpful, but threats to take away priviledges (TV, Toontown etc) work fairly well, although we do often end the day with all priviledges taken away and ds in a miserable heap in bed. But there we go, that's what parenting is about sometimes! There are lots of nice times too, when ds tells me "you're the best mum", which is nice. The other key thing is to never ever be involved in arguments between children unless you absolutely have to. dd (7) tends to tell tales and I have to be very firm and leave them to it when they argue (then when I get annoyed they both get told off). If they are loud and "fighty" I aim to go away!

I changed the clocks in the house by an hour when he was due to go to a party, then did all the silly things like dawdle hunt for my shoes,stare into space etc ds9 was screaming at me to hurry up and I kept saying in a minute stop nagging. Then I explained what I had done and he laughed and could see how frustrating it was.

He is still not perfect but if we are not a outside the house at the designated time for school he goes to be 30 mins early, for every 5 mins he is late. He has only been to bed an hour early once.

I have also changed my tone of voice and try to speak to him as I would a colleague at work who isn't performing quite as well. Softer voice and starting with I feel.....

Yes, tone definitely makes a difference. This afternoon (on my best behaviour) I was calm at all times although screaming inside my head.

I do really feel for him, I'm aware we treat him differently to his little brother.

I'll try the getting up earlier thing tomorrow and the sitting chatting nicely when he's putting his shoes on etc.

Will let you all know!

My daughter is 9 and she has a dissorder called APD ( auditory memory dissorder) she has a memmory span of 3 our of 10.
WE always knew something was different about her and always seemed as though she was always seeking attention.....she wasn't.
Some of what you are saying like acting younger than he is, not remebering what he has done with things e.g the cheque sounds like part of APD.
She drives us up the wall and believe me sometimes are worse than others.
try talking to your doc etc to see if they can coem with anything

How did it go today?

My DS1 is bad for mucking about and not taking responsibility, his favorite phrase at the moment is 'well its not my fault!' (complete with shrugged shoulders [grrr]) but we have sat down and had a big chat with him about accepting responsibility for his own actions - and also giving him more to do in the house etc if he does it he gets time on his DS if he doesn't he can't play it!

Also in the morning's i have actually bought a timer which i keep in the bathroom, when they get up i set it for 20mins and DS1 and DD have to get dressed, make their beds, brush teeth and hair and be downstairs ready for breakfast - If they do it DS1 gets to take his Pokemon/MatchAttak cards to school and DD gets to take something of her choice if they don't do it they don't get rewarded

Also at weekends DS1 gets to stay up later with us on his own - he loves this and it makes him feel very grown up!

It may seem like a lot of bribary on our part (and well it is!) but we are trying to show them that by doing as they are asked they get rewarded with something they like and if they don't then its their own behaviour that has let them down, and they always make sure the next day they are on best behaviour!

Well can you believe I got up an hour earlier this morning!!!! And I definitely felt more organised as you can imagine (although we still left 5 mins later than we should!!).

I felt my stomach churning with the silly voices. I mean, silly voices I can cope with but these are kind of goading voices - putting his face right up to his brother and saying 'DORK' in a weird voice. Sigh.

I'm going to make up house rules (will have to start a thread as I can only think of 3!!) and think about a reward chart.

Sometimes I think he can't help the voices and the verbal diarrohea - it's like it's such a habit, he can't stop himself, but hopefully I can remain calm enough to remind him that it's not acceptable.....and I'm hoping he can get into the habit of being a polite, helpful, charming lad!!!!

maybe you could try saying to him things like

'we don't talk like that in our house, talk like that with your friends at school but NOT at home'

OR

'Mummy doesn't talk like that and i'm a grown up, do you think thats how grown up's or little ones/babies talk'

Or even if you have a voice recorder on your mobile or something record him doing 'the voices' and play it back to him and see if he thinks it sounds silly?

I've done the 'talk like that to your friends but not here' thing, but I do like the 'talking like a baby' one!!!

Thanks, appreciate the ideas!!!

I think the more they want to be grown up and the more you try to make things seem like they are your DS's idea then they realise slightly more

DS1 doesn't do 'voices' but he is very complacent in his attitude about 'his own' responsibilities (doesn't matter if i don't/haven't done it someone else will do it for me) and i just don't want my DC growing up thinking that i'm going to run around doing what they want all the time and taking the 'fall' for their behaviour out of the house (school, friends houses, clubs etc). DS1 starts senior school in 2yrs and i'm trying to get him use to these things now i guess

Maybe i expect too much of him? i don't know

No, I don't think we expect too much (yours must be much the same age as mine). The problem is that I've been doing too much and at the same time expecting him to be more independent and mature.

I know what you mean its easier to do it yourself as there are less arguments about it and it just gets done that way!

Just think of small things/jobs for him to do - getting the breakfast ready himself (pouring cereal, milk etc), making him get his school things ready for the next day so he knows where they are, even getting DS1 to read a story to your younger DS (could even make them bond better!)

Just think of small every day jobs that he can do - don't rush into it though take your time to think what he can realistically do, talk to and tell him his new jobs, write them down/what days he has to do what jobs and just remind him to look at them everyday to remind himself, then add things when he's got the hang of it!

The breakfast one is a good one, will try that tomorrow (assumes brace position!).

Need to give serious thought as to what's practical, you're right. Thanks!