'They won't still be coming into your bed when he's 18'. So at what point in the next 14 years...

[choosyfloosy]

... does it happen 'naturally' or should i put our collective feet down?

We have left it too late. DS is 4 and has been coming into our bed every night at some point since he was 18 months old (bar about 3 random nights which need not concern us).

If we don't make a big fuss about it, will it actually happen at some point without us doing anything?

To be fair there are quite a lot of nights where he comes in at 6.30am or so, which is morning of course, but given that dh and i are enormously heavy sleepers, it still feels like the night to us. However, we could obviously live with this, but I dislike the 3am appearance. DH heads off to ds's bed which mucks up his sleep as dh is 6'4" and can't stretch out on ds's bed. DS does usual invasion of my space and plays with various bits of me . I know this sounds horrible of me, and undoubtedly it is, I am a stinker if anyone tries to wake me up. Probably if I were a SAHM all would be well. [guilt].

However, given that I am considerably nicer if allowed unbroken sleep, is there anything I can do? Too late for stairgates, he'd just climb over them and fall down the stairs IMO. DH can't lift ds without doing his back in, actually neither can I now, he's enormous.

Perhaps we should just learn to enjoy it?

I would say that as long as he's not distressed, i.e. having bad dreams, that now is probably a good time to start taking him back to bed.

What we used to do with both of ours was to say "you can have 5 minutes" and let them into the bed. Sometimes I did drop off for a little bit!

Then after that 5 minutes, say "right it's time to go back to bed now" and take him back to his own bed. Sometimes I did have to say "would you like me to get in with you and have a quick cuddle?".

It really doesn't take that long before they get the message that they can have a cuddle but that they aren't going to be there all night.

I don't think 4 is too late. Seriously. I would however make ground rules such as "don't disturb us, come in quietly, don't fiddle with mummy" etc

some people have a mattress on the floor for child to come and sleep on if they want to

I would think 4 is actually a difficult age to make changes with regards to sleeping arrangements, they are often fearful about being left alone, of the dark, and of things like monsters / witches.

ah, good stuff, thank you.

so is there a better age? it would help if we could think forward to a time when this will not be happening. Maybe 7 or so when he can read to himself?

I would think even 5 or 6, personally
I mean don't get me wrong, if you hated this I think it would be fine to change things, but I don't think it is the easiest time, and I don't think unless you do it now that you are stuck with him

we did it at just 3 which worked ok for us. You will probably get a feeling when it is the right time to do it.

I do think you can put your foot down firmly about bed rules though. And I think you shoudl make a plan so that dh can stay in the bed too. Can ds sleep on the floor, on a mattress?

Well my older 2 are now 8 and 11 and they only ever come in if they are ill - perhaps once a year. It happened naturally around the time they went to school, and right on target DS#2 who started in Sept is staying in his own bed and wanting to have his stories there. We never encouraged or discouraged.

We knocked this on the head 2 weeks ago!

DS1 is 6 in APril and DS2 is 3. One of the two of them would always end up in our bed like a starfish and DH would end up in Ds bed which was not funny. As DH was up at 6am he was not impressed.

We did a sticker chart. If (and Ds2 was the worst!) he came in our bed but was taken straight back without any fuss, he would be given a sticker. If he woke up but was able to go back to sleep straight away without coming into our bed he would get 2 stickers.

When they both had 10 stickers they got a present. It worked straight away and we had to go present shopping at the weekend!

Well, worth it IMO!

dd2 is 3.7 and has been in our bed every night except for six nights.

These were three random nights until the back end of last week when she appears to have decided for herself that she will sleep in her own bed and has been there for three nights on the trot

We bought a job lot of lollipops and if she sleeps all night in her own bed, she can have one after breakfast. Even when she had a huge nightmare last night, she insisted on staying in her own room so she could get her lolly.

We don't make a fuss either way, but if she has stayed in her bed, she gets a treat. If she has come into ours, she doesn't, although we don't tell her she isn't getting one, we just don't mention it.

Now, I know that three nights does not make me an expert, but after so long of her being in with us, it feels like a huge breakthrough.

He could, but when he does in other houses, he lies on his mattress crying 'i'm looooonnneeely' etc. however, given a routine perhaps it would work. having said that we don't have room for a mattress on the floor. also if ds is in the same room as dh, it goes like this:

ds drops off
dh drops off
vast snore from dh
ds jerks awake 'waahh!'
dh jerks awake {stentorian tones] 'it's all right little one, I'm here'
dh drops off
vast snore from dh
ds 'daddy stop SNORING'
(i go downstairs to find the whisky)

I think you really need to decide whether you mind him there or not. If you feel ok about it, I agree that it would be good to find a way for dh to be able to stay in bed (bigger mattress, additional mattress). For what it is worth, dd who is four is still in our bed. I intend to go with the flow and let her decide when she'll sleep on her own, but that is because we are all three ok about the situation.

Ah, thread has moved on. Does your dh mind getting up and going to another room?

DS is 6 and still sleeps with me. DH moved to spare room! We have tried a few things but DS doesn't seem to care enough about anything to make it worth his while. And as he puts it "you and Daddy will be together and I will be on my own and I am afraid of the dark and you aren't" - and yes he has a nightlight!

He is now embarrassed about it - I am not allowed to tell anyone so I think he will move himself soon.

Part of our problem is that we are away from home a lot and then he ends up back in with me/us.

Choosyfloosy - that made me laugh out loud at work, that is exactly what happens with my dh and ds including the same tones of voice! (Although normally dh is in with ds at that point) Our ds is in a double bed in his room, because we haven't got round to swapping it for bunks yet (he's 2) and it broadens our sleeping options - I have a cot by our bed for ds who is 4.5 months, but she normally ends up in with me. In fact it's musical beds nearly every night and on one occasion when all four of us were in our bed because my Mum was staying with us in Ds room, I just managed to stop my dh practically sleep-walking into the bed she was in because ds was gradually pushing him out of our bed. Now that would have raised a few eyebrows!

Ds would like to come into our bed - however, on the odd occasion that I have given in because I'm too tired to say no, I get no further sleep as he is toooo wriggly - kicking legs (hits both of us somehow) finger investigating my mouth, eyes, nose... and if I turn over, running his fingers through my hair - which as it is quite thick and curly - is excruciating.

The only time I have shared a bed with him was when he had a nasty cough when he was quite young and being with him I managed to get him settled again immediately. I moved into the spare room with him though.

So, I am most impressed that any of you have ever managed any sleep with dcs in bed!

We now have a lamp on the landing with a timeclock and have told him that if its on he is allowed to get up as it is morning, but if it is not on it is not morning and he has to go back to bed.

BTW, he has two friendly monsters that chase away any nasty monsters that might think to come and get him, and that helps a lot!

I agree with Franny, I think for all sorts of developmental reasons four may not be the right time to knock this on the head.
We have a wandering four year old too, who is at the height of the awareness of death and impermanence thing that they experience around this age - fearful, clingy, even less rational than the norm.
Like you choosy, I have the difficult choice of a very disturbed night's sleep wandering to and fro with a vociferously distressed child for much of the night, or a less disturbed night being slapped round the chops/kicked in the fanjo by her sleeping with us
Dh can seemingly sleep through all of this but too much yowling wakes ds, who was also a night wanderer at this age, but who now only comes in very occasionally if he has a bad dream
He is eight and became capable of sorting himself out, with our encouragement, at six or so
Looming sleepovers, with friends or Beavers, are huge positive motivator IMO. Ds was so keen but we said not until you put yourself to bed and stay there all night

this is all so helpful, thank you

i think we might go for a star chart at age 5ish after he goes to school. i think if ds had a sibling he might be less desperate to invade our bed [more guilt]. we are also thinking about a dog which might help (or possibly ds and the dog will stage a joint invasion. Sigh.)

It will be ds and the dog, trust me

Get his name down for Beavers now and engineer friendships with resilient little kids who have done 12 hours solo without so much as stirring, and are sleepover veterans
(Ds' friend just so happens to be one of life's nonchalant kippers and his approach has definitely rubbed off on ds)

Yep this goes on in our house too! Ds is 3.5 and comes into our bed every night more or less at around 3am. I can't cope with a battle at that time so we just put up with it. Nice to know others are in the same boat though Ds is a daddy's boy so it's usually me who goes into ds's bed if I can't get to sleep - due to the fact that ds does his starfish impression and the bed is double not king size! Mind you, ds has one of those toddler beds and although I'm only 5'2" myself I swear I shrink an inch every time I spend the night (you'll notice I don't use the word sleep) in it... Oh and ds asks for drinks of milk when he gets up too, it's like having a newborn I swear.

I heart you Fio

Hooray Fio

now can you come to my house and intercept the Looks my mum and MIL give me when they find ds is STILL in a nappy at night

So many years, so many Looks
Extended breast-feeding
Co-sleeping
Wandering child
Big Reception girl still in pull-ups at night
Mothers and MILs can be like basilisks don't you think?