ON THE BRINK OF TEARS AGAIN THX TO 9 YR OLD DS1

[theladyevenstar]

I don't know where to begin,
ds1 is forever challenging me when i ask him to do something or tell him he can't do something. Last night I ended up smacking him after 3 hours of him laughing at me. I had asked him to go to bed and as a punishment for rudeness to dp he had to go earlier than normal, he proceeded to tell me, "put me to bed now and i will be up at midnight still" true to his word he was. I have a 15 week old ds as well and before anyone says is it jealousy NO this behaviour has been the same since he was about 5, so def not cos of ds2. He tells lies about me and dp, about my mum to me about me to mum etc etc, then on the other hand he will be as wonderful s anything and look after ds2 so i can have a shower or do something i need to.

Sorry i am probably rambling but i don't know what to do, it is not just a bedtime issue it is a behaviour in general, attitude as well. he has been tested for adhd, add and odd and he has nothing wrong with him, he has been to a child psychologist who says he will grow out of it and I am sick of hearing this as people have said it for 4 yrs now. I have just had a phone call from the school to tell me his class teacher wants to see me after school, I really don't need this crap...i am sitting here crying because i don't knwo what to do next i have even considered boarding school as i cannot see him ever changing and do not want him to go on making everyones life a misery. Unless I am putting m hand in my pocket for him he is a complete mouthy so and so, even screaming at me that i had the cheek to buy ds2 new vests and a toy and none for him...he has an ever ready supply of clothes and toys.
Dp will tell him off and support me in what i am doing in the way of disciplne but doesn't like to sometimes because of ds1's lies and him not being bio father, Bio father been gone almost 8 yrs so this is not the prob either.

Please help me someone i am at the end of my tether and do not know what to do next.

Clear out his room - everything he loves and uses - just leave a bed in there and tell him as his behaviour improves he can have stuff back - when he speaks or shouts at you without respect you ignore him too and go and see the school and draw up a plan of how your going to deal with him that both of you can stick to.

God I sound awful and DD is only 7 and an angel so haven't had to do anything like this but had a friend who did it to her daughter and the change around was sooo quick it was startling.

My sister does this too... she calls it the bad boy bin.. she has a trunk with a lock and for everything bad he does he looses a treasure for 3 days.. or gets one out for good behaviour! he's back to just needing time outs again!

My dad did this to me when I was younger (the removing everything thing) and I would heartily recommend it!
He actually was physically abusive normally and would hit me regularly, which had no effect but the time he couldn't and I had been really, really bad (drugs were involved...and he had broken his arm) was when he removed everything bar my bed and my clothes, (books/posters/toys everything, he took the plugs off my stereo and tv) and it's the only time I behaved.

Each day I was allowed to choose some things to go back in if I had been extra good I got more stuff back, if I misbehaved everything I earnt the day before got taken away again.

Worth a try, it seems a bit extreme but it worked, and it can continue as long as you need it to with removing and putting back.

Have you tried ways to talk to him, not about anything specific?

I mentioned this to you on your other thread about making a mood chart for him and spending 10 mins at the end of everyday being with him, just with him, your attention is not given to anything else, no baby, no phone calls.

Talk to him about his day, what was good, bad. It sounds as if he is a very angry and unhappy chap.
Would it help him to draw his feelings? I have recently bought this book and it is helping.

You and he have got into a very negative pattern, but you don't need me to tell you that!
Don't feel bad about smacking, sometimes it is what is needed. He needs to know where the boundaries are and you must be absolutely rigid without them.

I don't agree with smacking - you are teaching him that physical violence is acceptable in society as a vent for your feelings and it is not.

I disagree, sometimes smacking is what works.
It is different for all children, you must do what works for you and not think about whether other people find it acceptable.

Sorry, but I can't disagree with you more kitty, I got smacked (and more) as a child and it was only when a measured, reasoned punishment was given to me that I took a blind bit of notice.
Just gaily recommending smacking as if it is nothing worse than being told off is not on, evenstar smacked as she was at the end of her tether, which is fair enough and understandable, and I can understand why she did it, but you cannot use smacking as an everyday punishment, she needs something long term that will help with his discipline, and smacking will not do that.

Well said Chirpy - I was smacked - well abused (because hurting someone physically or mentally on purpose is abuse IMO)in that way as a child and I feel that as a grown up have done well to break the cycle.

I think the idea of teaching him that his behaviour has consequences is a good one- punish the bad and reward, reward, reward the good. We use the time out method with great effect but alternatively confiscate favourite things when he's bold.Rewarding him when he's good desn't have to be about money either- go on little excursions together, stay up late etc. I swear by the 123 Magic method which is very basically about giving your child to the count of 3 to stop and then putting them into time out.www.parentmagic.com No shouting, unfufilled threats or heated debates fueling the situation.The first thing it did for me was to change how I dealt with my DS(9 as well) and showed me, and my DH, how to remain calm and firm. I am guessing that slapping your DS is like water off a duck's back and probably fuels his rage rather than stops it. Also this earlier thread might be of interest.www.mumsnet.com/Talk/8/445588

"ever ready supply of toys and clothes" - You need not to be giving him everything. If he has no special needs and this is just a discipline problem then you need utterly consistent boundaries.

Him laughing at you for 3 hours - from where? From the top of the stairs ??

Needs his stuff taking away and you being extremely firm (and totally fair and unemotional)

Doctor Phil's book "Family First" is the best book I have ever read on raising children to teenagers (even though he's only nine)

Stop putting your hand in your pocket - you don't have to do this to give or extract love from him

I too was occasionally smacked. When I was, boy did I know I had gone too far and I never went that far again. I in no way feel distressed because of it, it was justified. As I said for some people it works.
It is not useful to say " this and that is bad" bad for you but not for everyone. You can disagree with it but cannot say that it must be wrong for everyone.

Kittywise - I think it's pretty much wrong to hit anyone

Not saying that it wouldn't 'work' (whatever work means). Yes, a child may do what you want them to if you hit them but it's the hitting another person that's the part that's wrong in my opinion.

Sorry Kitty physically or mentally hurting another person willfully is wrong in my opinion - just because they are your child does not give you free rein to do to them what would be considered against the law if you did it to someone in the street.

My children know when they have gone too far by the tome of my voice and the look on my face and their punishment of time out or having something taken away or a promised trip missed.

I am not going to go into a long protracted arguement but I think smacking is more about the parent losing control and not being able to parent without using violence and it is wrong in my opinion - any sort of violence repulses me from what I am seeing on the TV at the moment in Kenya to parents smacking their children - I won't be able to change your opinion and that is fine with me but let me have my opinion please.

We live in a flat, his bedroom is right next to the living room, he kept coming into the doorway laughing at me and telling me he won't go to bed, then hiding behind doors and laughing.....I did smack him and i am not proud of it BUT it did stop him laughing and then he started to calm down and stayed in his room longer.

I don't buy him things to gain his love, i buy xmas, b'day easter pressies, and clothes are a need not a want.

I have just told him i am taking everything away and he will need to earn things back bit by bit, i have also made him stay in his room for now as he is better in there away from me as i am so angry with him. He is in there shouting i am unfair expecting him to be a child with no toys or books etc and only having his bed and wardrobe in his room....my reply "tough get used to it, i am the adult you the child so accept it" Have also told him he can stay in his room until dinner then after dinner bath and bed. again he told me i am unfair....

Sounds like you're having an effect then, evenstar - stick with it.

I was a particularly obnoxious child at age 9/10 and my (kind loving) parents used to withdraw privileges in this way. It did work and I thank them for it now (though at the time I just complained they were being horrible etc)

Don't forget to be really positive/lavish praise and attention when he starts co-operating though...

Maybe a good idea would be if you wait until you are both calmer and explain what his behaviour is doing to yoiu and the rest of the family - tell him that you love him and ask him why he is behaving like this - maybe he just feels a little misunderstood or left out or something - tell him that things will change when he changes.

But tell him if he wants to act like a child he will be treated like one!

It does seem like you have let him rule the house and you and now you have to take that control back - make him understand that you are the adult and you make the rules and decisions for his own good, when he has kids he will hopefully have had enough life experience to do the same for his.

Stick with it though - do not give in and I guarantee that he will change.

Sorry to sound judgemental re the smacking just appalls me - I am sure it was just a loss of control with you being at the end of your tether!

hey, it sounds like you are taking back the control LES well done!
He needs to know that you are the boss, full stop!

Well done!! Sometimes the punishment can make a mummy cry almost as much as the behaviour.. they really know how to make you feel like the bad guy! Remember the praise... I found this really difficult and not natural//automatic to do.. there were 6 of us we were all smacked and my mother ran a loving but tight ship! I'm so much better at it now but it took a lot of practice!

Make sure he does get plenty of reward for being good though, as well as consequences for bad behaviour. And attention when he's being good - often we slip into only noticing when they are causing trouble. Spend a bit of time with him on his own - let dp look after the baby and you and ds do something together. Boys will often talk more if you are busy doing something at the time...

However, this is all based on my little sister 15 years ago/friends with boys that age - my own ds is 4 so I may well be talking out of my bottom to some extent.

HTH

I agree with the emptying of his room and only letting him have things when he behaves well. My brother was a similar little boy, very angry, rude, determined to ruin everyone's day and my parents, apart from yelling at him, never gave him ANY consequences for his actions. They constantly made sure he had as many sweets , toys and outings as I did as they were terrified of making him more angry. Meanwhile he learnt that he'd get everything even if he continued to be a right pain so of course he did continue to be a right pain until he left home at 16 and took up heroin! Looking back he was crying out for boundaries to be put in place and my folks never did it; he was given whatever he wanted in an attempt to pacify him which never ever worked. He was so unhappy and of course always in the doghouse whereas if they'd given him some consequences for his actions they'd have given him a reason to behave and things might have calmed down. He's 43 now and OK as he found a VERY strict wife who he loves to bits as she keeps him firmly in line and doesn't put up with any shit!!!

Noughty, he does have boundaries but he constantly over steps them. then when i put the punishment in place i get continous screaming and tantrums. I have tried numerous things and removing his toys and books again will end up with the same result...NONE. Nothing works with him, he is a very intelligent little boy who knows exactly what he is doing...but why he does it i don't know.

I have done this many times over the last 4 years and it really doesn't make any odds to him. I have even stopped him going to his cousins party for his behaviour and his reply was i don't care i didn't want to go anyway.

I know it sounds wrong that nothing works but it doesn't, i have done the naughty chair, star charts, pasta jar, a 2p jar, a 5p jar etc etc and we always end up with the same ds1 not changing. I have had him tested for vaious things only to be told each time he is playing a game with you and knows exactly what he is doing....thats why i am so upset, i can't think what i have done to him to deserve him treating me this way.

Another vote for 123 magic- I found it very helpful with my dds when they were a little younger. Found it really helped me to keep calm and find ways of catching them being good.

you need to believe it will work, and behave as if it will work, what ever you do. If he thinks your wavering and unsure he will exploit that.
Stick to your guns, you can be tough love mum.

please explain to your ds when you are both calmer and can have some time alone why you doing what you are doing, try to use this opportunity to let him know that you love him, he give him time to express how he feels having a brother whose dad is there is all the time, does dp feel the same about both boys. listen to your son a good book is talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk, methods to adjust his behaviour may work but you also need to explore emotions and feelings as well

Dp feels the same about both ds's and even asked me to give ds2 just my surname so that at a later date when he can adopt ds1 he will do same with ds2....so that ds1 didn't feel too different. Dp will spend all the time in the world with ds1, more so than with his ds from previous relationship.