What is the best way to discipline DS (19mths)?

[MrsClausinJimmyChoos]

He is having a lot of tantrums around meal times and at nappy change time. He squirms when I try to put him in high chair, (he won't entertain being sat in a small toddler chair either) and if he doesn't even like the look of what he sees in his bowl, he shouts NO and refuses to even try it.

He has just got over a really nasty cough and so he did end up eating just toast, weetabix and yoghurt for those few days (all things he loves) just to get him to eat something and I think its left him with the knowledge that if he doesn't eat what we put in front of him, he will get something he likes...how to resolve this and how to stop him from having tantrums over small things like getting him dressed, telling him no he can't go up the stairs or whatever? Also, he goes ballistic when I'm putting him in the car seat which is making it hell for me when picking him up from nursery!

TIA

Poor you.I'm having the same problems at my ds evening meal.We are having a showdown at the moment.He hasn't had an evening meal for four days no as he keeps refusing what im putting in front of him (my cooking is not that bad honest!).
The only way i deal with the few tantrums my ds has is just to laugh at him.He either goes silent-how dare mum laugh at me, or he starts laughing himself.
good luck x

They really start trying to assert their independance at this age don't they!

If you want to stay sane (remembe the mantra it's just a phase!) then pick your battles and don't sweat the small stuff.

Depending on the situation, here are some possible ways to avoid melt-downs:

Give him a bit more independance (like giving him some choice in what he wears)

Distraction distraction distraction

Make things into a game

Laugh or ignore the behaviour

Also, be consistant and stick to what you say, if you said 'no' to something, never ever back down after a tantrum, if it works once he will always try his luck to see if you will give in again.

Oh, and with meals, if he squirms when being put in high chair, just don't put him in it and don't offer any food. He'll soon realise he needs to sit in the chair if he wants to eat.

Don't make a big deal or even comment on this or his refusal of food, ut don't immediately offer an alternative, just offer the same food again at a slightly different time.

Hope some of this helps!

I don't think you can discipline as such at this age. But being consistent, firm but also lightening up will help. You can start the naughty step etc. when they're a little older.

Ignore the small stuff or make a joke out of it.

I'd make sure that every other meal was something they liked to begin with and then just build from there.

My 18 month old dives headfirst onto the carpet and says Oh dear when she gets told off or I say No. (Christiano Ronaldo has been round to take notes ) I just ignore her most of the time and then ask her if she fell over when she's calmed down.

I would also try to make all snacks and drinks a sitting at the table event so that he becomes accustomed to being there for food. I only have to be cooking for my L/O to try to get in her chair ready.

lol at Ronaldo comment!

The high chair comment is interesting actually...I may try that next time he starts getting squirmy.....I must get over my PFB syndrome and the worry that if his meal is delayed or he doesn't eat something, he will waste away!!! lol!!

I do try to make him what he likes and I've made loads of different meals for him to try but he's one of these children that if you put it in front of him and he doesn't like the look of it, then he won't even try it....maybe he's going to be a future food critic??!!!

meals: is the important thing that the child should sit in a seat designated by the parent at certain times of day, or is the imprtant thing the actual sustenance? if the latter, may i suggest carpet picnics? much more likely to try things if it's a fun game and you aren't physically constrained. lots of finger food. spread a tablecloth to catch spills. Provide a variety of foods and let child eat what they want. If you can't control what you put in your own mouth, what can you control?

nappies: depending on the problem, there are a million solutions to this which don't involve a screasming child. Including: mobile nappy changes (put something v interesting on a table. Child stands to investigate it. FRom behind, you whip the nappy off and clean up), having a shower to sluice away the poo - if child wants, they can get in the shower in their clothes and take them off in the shower, going for a swim and taking the nappy off and cleaning it as an incidental thing, ditto paddling pool in summer, leave them out of nappies for a while (advocates of Elimination Communication would be v. supoportive of this, but it's not something I ever got into seriously), a washing-up bowl of water with bubbles to investigate, and put the child in that to clean their bottom. Some of these will be too crazy for you, some might really help.

"having tantrums over small things like getting him dressed, telling him no he can't go up the stairs or whatever?"

Some children go through a phase where it's easiest to get them dressed the night before after the bath. OR even once they've gone to sleep, in that heavy heavy floppy deep sleep stage.

Why can't your child go upstairs? Surely that's something you want him to be able to do? When he starts on the stairs, you say to yourself that now it's stair climbing time, and you go with and stand behind so he doesn't fall, and count stairs with him. What's more valuable than that?

"the car seat"
Take the bus or walk home from nursery. Or climb in the car and sit together in the front for 15 minutes having a welcome-back-mummy cuddle, and letting your child "drive" and then when they are ready, they'll go in the seat with something really interesting to look at. What they really want is your touch and your attention after a day at nursery, isn't it? Where's the law that says the joyous reunion has to wait while you drive home?

There's always ways to avoid tantrums and conflict. They usually involve allowing time, parent being playful, and not getting hung up on things happening the way YOU want rather than the way the child wants, which is usually just as valid.

emmaagain - interesting theories but few of those would work in my household! I simply don't have the time! I could not sit in the front of the car for 15 minutes having a hug before driving away.

I'm afraid my approach to "discipline" at this stage is a mixture of pick-your-battles and what mummy says goes. He is a child. He can choose between his red top and his green top. He can choose an apple or a pear for a snack. But I will limit the choices because I know what is best for him.

Car seats: tough luck. The car doesn't move without the straps done up. Believe me once you have won that battle a few times they don't bother. You can give them a favourite toy or something as a bribe for getting in.

Highchair: food doesn't get served until you are in the highchair. Tell him this, he should understand.

Refusal of food: take plate away, get him down but don't offer anything else. Offer it again twenty minutes later. No fuss, no coaxing. In the evening I would offer a slice of bread and butter before bed so he doesn't go to bed on an empty tummy but DS very rarely refuses a meal as he knows he doesn't get an alternative.

All of the above does not mean we don't have a happy and fun home. DS thrives knowing the "rules". He really falls apart if one time he's allowed something and another time not etc. Children do much better with boundaries and at the end of the day YOU are the parent. Consistency is the key - if you let them do something once they think they can do it again - hence it'll take a while to get over the changes when he was poorly (which of course were understandable), but if you stand your ground now in a week he'll be back to knowing what's what.

Good luck.

ps - we went through a nightmare stage over nappies. That one fell in to the category of "pick your battles" - for about two weeks he got a raisin if he got through a nappy change no kicking and no crying. It lasted about 2 weeks and then I stopped giving them to him every change and gradually reduced. He goes for his nappy change no problem now.

"I could not sit in the front of the car for 15 minutes having a hug before driving away."

Why not? Aren't you going to go home and sit down with your child playing with toys and reading books with them anyway? What's the difference between doing it in the car and doing it at home, except that one version has a tantrum in it and the other is a little out-of-the-box but no one suffers?

Every time we hurry our children against their will another opportunity for fun and closeness is missed. I wonder how many of us will regret such missed opportunities when our children are teens, have rejected our discipline and boundaries, no longer submit to "what mum says goes", and speak to us only in grunts.

"There's always ways to avoid tantrums and conflict. They usually involve allowing time, parent being playful, and not getting hung up on things happening the way YOU want rather than the way the child wants, which is usually just as valid. "

I do disagree with this, I'm afraid. Some kids do just tantrum, and there is not much you can do about it. Also, for those of us with more than one child, it is often simply not possible to allow time, or not get hung up on things-sometimes one child wants something, but the other one NEEDS to go somewhere, etc. Sometimes parents have to get to work. Kids do have to fit into the real world, IMO.

I do think though that 19 months is much too young for any sort of discipline.

I tend to think its much more productive to arrange your life so as to a. give them as much independence as possible and b. avoid conflict.

Eg-why can't he go up the stairs? both mine were, unassisted, at this age, and consequently they were much safer when presented with strange stairs. Stand at the bottom and watch the first few times, he will probably suprise you.

I think people often see small kids as much more manipulative than they are. More than anything else, at 19 months, your son wants to fit in with you, the adults. You don't need a discipline system, but you do need to actually model the behaviour you want, especially towards him.

If he has just gotten over a nasty cough-I wouldn't worry about the food. Just put things back to normal. Do you eat as a family? I think this IS a picky age, but my experience has been that kids ultimately will eat a wide range of foods, according to their own needs, providing that they see their parents eating, providing mealtimes are a pleasant social activity etc. Like I say, I don't think kids are nearly as manipulative as people make out, but there is absolutely no sense in TELLING them that you will get wound up if they don't eat.

Having said, that, the car seat is a problem. DD was the same, and being a Neglected Subsequent Child there was no chance of me sitting and waiting for her to sort herself out. Our solution was to take public transport as often as possible, but also to bribe her. Alfie Kohn would be shocked but then he has 5 years between his kids. And fgs, it WORKED. (a "nicer" way to do this is to use consequences eg "if you get in the car seat quickly then there will be time to watch Teletubbies/have a carrot stick/etc")

I don't think AK would be shocked. The way I read it he believes you should use reasoning etc unless there is no option but to use other ways. As regards the car seat thing, I've forced my dc into the seat while saying nice things and saying why we've got to do what we've got to do. Usually tried to leave enough time to give them the option of getting in themselves though.
OP he is going through a stage. It will pass. Just try to keep calm. Nothing wrong with weetabix, toast and yoghurt and I'm sure he'll get more interested in other foods as time goes on.
Getting dressed, changing nappies, you have to get quick. Have it done and over with before he realises. I've found that mine think getting dressed, nappy changed is boring. Once it's done everyone is happy again. If they really don't like what you've dressed them in then they soon let you know. In which case give them a choice. Then they'll let you dress them in their choice of clothes.
As has been said, let him go upstairs but be one step behind him until he gets the hang of it. Every time you go upstairs let him go with you. If you're not able to watch him then keep him away from the stairs (or are you open plan).
Is he okay once you've got him in the high-chair? Perhaps he thinks the tussle with you is a game. If he really doesn't like the high-chair try something else. Sit him on your knee at the table. Let him stand up on a chair at the table with you next to him.
A lot of these things are trial and error trying to accommodate everyones needs.

I think that emmaagain's approach is totally compatible with a Mummy Is Ultimately In Charge approach too.

You have the playful, happy silly approach as the norm.

Then you use occasional firm voice when you 'really mean it' (and you do have to always be consistent and follow through - eg 'LAST ONE' and always mean it). Firm doesn't mean shouty or horrible btw.

For the 'losing it' tantrums, i tend to remove from pushchair/carseat/situation and get down to look in eye and say in the quiet, firm, 'i mean it' voice 'dd, you need to get in the carseat now and then we are going to drive home. thank you', maybe a cuddle and then do it with no fuss. It usually works v well.

Do listen to what your child wants and acknowledge it even if you can't do it. eg ' I know you don't want to get in your highchair but we are eating dinner at the table, sweetheart', then just get on with eating your dinner. (dd usually comes to get in highchair after about a minute. Would never force her in. Sometimes eat at her little table for fun!)

But everything takes time and consistency, children are not built with automatic No Means No parts. Enjoy teaching your child to be a responsible citizen!

Def agree with trial and error.

Some things work, some things don't. We all learn from our mistakes.

(and the experiments that don't are always in the middle of the supermarket, eh? )

I would say that there is NEARLY always a way to avoid tantrums and conflict! Sometimes a tantrum is just going to happen, and indeed there is a view that they are a necessary way for a child to learn to govern their feelings.

I definitely agree that the sensible approach is to find ways round things rather than fighting everything. That will work for the food thing, and for the nappy thing; far, far better to go over to pull ups and change a nappy with the child standing up playing with something, than to have a nasty battle five times a day. Also with food there is nothing wrong with doing a carpet picnic or even a car picnic just to distract the child, give a change of scene and hopefully get them eating normally again without them even noticing! As long as they are sitting to eat that's the main thing.

With the car seat DS had this phase and I'm afraid the only way round it was to keep a real treat to distract him with; choc buttons or similar, just about three in a little pot. Not every day, somethimes other healthier treats! But it just carries you through the phase until they've come out the other side.

I think you have to remember that at this age it is not about THEM and disciplining them. It is about YOU and how you parent.

Thanks for all your replies. I do let him go up the stairs quite a lot by the way and he toddles to the bedroom where we have a play fight on the bed, which he loves but what I was getting at was the times when he can't go up the stairs because I'm unable to watch him as cooking dinner or am getting him ready to go out somewhere - there isn't always the time, as much as we would love it, to let them do/go where they want!

He did surprise me today though....he saw me bringing his grub into dining room, he stood expectantly by the high chair to be lifted it, he leaned forward for his bib - even tried to tuck it down bless him and then ate like a charm!!

As for the nappy changes, I've started doing them on the living room rug with cbeebies on - its worked like a charm so far and makes the whole thing a lot faster and less stressful!! Maybe it was just a boredom thing - he is quite bright and does like to be kept busy/distracted!

Fingers crossed!!

Been watching this thread as dd, too, kicks up
quite a bit of fuss these days around nappy changes
and bath times.
I completely agree with your conclusion, Choos:

I think it's simply boredom with the repetitiveness
of it all. And protest at being interrupted at whatever
amazing game she was trying to play with Daddy's razor
and Mum's lipstick.

It seems to be the big theme of this new phase:
how to keep boredom at bay. And it's pretty hard work!

I used to get really stressed out with the nappy-change squirming as ds was so flexible and wriggly that poo used to go everywhere. I bought a changing mat with straps and just strapped him down. After quite a short while (which did involve frequent tantrumming during the nappy change) he got used to the idea that if he lay relatively still he wouldn't be strapped down and if he tried to escape he would.

oh, I'm glad its going better, jimmychoos!

Whoever said it was about how you parent is so right. I think that there IS a silver lining to these incredibly annoying stages that they go through-each one leaves you more able to deal with the NEXT annoying phase!

I really agree with not meeting them head on if you can avoid it.

But I will say re the tantrums-Ds never really tantrumed (jesus was I smug . Then along came dd. She tantrums a lot, and not really because of anything we do or don't do. Its because she is a complete perfectionist and wants to do EVERYTHING for herself, PERFECTLY. Since she is 2.3, this is not really going to happen. We can't help her do anything really (=> tantrum), but if we leave her to her own devices, when she works out that she is 3 foot too small to open the front foor (=> tantrum). So there is a lot of personality involved there. The other side to this is that she is definately reducing her tantrums as she becomes more capable.

He kicked up at nappy change this evening -so do you know what I did?

I took his favourite teddy and...please don't laugh... proceeded to wet wipe and put a nappy on the teddy, along with much praise, a cuddle afterwards and coos of whose a good teddy boy then, cue DS looking evils at the teddy bear, marching over, taking teddy bear and then promptly lying down for a nappy change!!!

HAPPY NEW YEAR, N

lol JC, well done. Soon this will become second nature, and you will screen out the odd looks...

One thing about kids who tantrum despite best lentilly efforts-they do seem to be persistant. This is a Good Thing. They know what they want and are determined to get it.

Its just a PITA atm

Wahoo!!!! Genius.

Desi - Happy New Year to you too - hope we can meet up in the New Year?? Toying with an idea of doing a Mummy meet up for those mumsnetters I know at my house....am I brave enough??! lol!!