Everyone says my 8yo ds is a monster - what can I do?

[giveusaclue]

My 8 year old ds1 has 'behavioural issues'. He is rude, stomps around the house scowling at everyone, doesn't register what we ask him to do (eg get dressed, clean your teeth etc), is physically aggressive with his brother (5) and verbally agressive to him and his sister (2) and seems to take pleasure from his brother getting told off to name just a few of his 'issues'. When I try to talk to him about his behaviour he will often get upset and teary and says he is sorry but this doesn't seem to make any difference to his behaviour and he will be back in 'monster child' mode within minutes of the tears.

I know I am not helping because I am at my wits end with him. I lose my temper, threaten him with whatever punishment I can think of off the top of my head, shout at him etc. I also try reasoning with him, trying to talk about why he behaves like he does, how he feels when he is like this but he just says he doesn't know. Basically I'm hugely inconsistent and breaking every rule in the book but it is so wearing dealing with the constant bad behaviour!

Anyway, the current crisis is that a couple of weeks ago his nanny told me she thought he was 'horrid' and I have been thinking that maybe I should give up work and stay home as at least I love him and why should she when he is so constantly rude to her (she has looked after him since he was 2mths old so they do have a deep relationship) but have just discussed this with my dh who tells me he thinks ds1 is a 'horrid, nasty, vindictive little boy'.

So now I'm dispairing as it seems that everyone has written him off and I am the only one left in his corner and I know I have nothing left to try in this fight. Is his behaviour normal? Do I get him counselling? Do I get me parenting classes? And how can I turn this situation around if everyone is against him? God help him if he only has me to rely on!

How is he at school? Your OP could have been describing my DS2 at 6 yo, before he was dx with ADHD. If he is fine at school then it's not that, but it would pay to get him counselling at least.

He is fine in school as far as I know. He has always lacked concentration but no more than a lot of others in his class.

He does get loads of excersise - probably too much sometimes. DH is a kiwi who believes that the cure for all ills is sport so spends vast amounts of time with all 3 down the park rain or shine. And I haven't seen any pattern emerging as to what triggers behaviour re excersise - he can be just as badly behaved the minute he gets in from the park as if he hasn't been out for hours.

Like TheLadyevenstar he can be angellic and clearly loves to be helpful and praised (not quite to your DS1s extent TLES - maybe a coffee once in a while would help ) but it isn't often and is usually triggered buy DS2 being in trouble. DS1 seems to want to appear even more angelic compared to his naughty brother.

It's starting to feel to me like sibling rivalry has a lot to do with it but I think the only difference in the way we treat them is down to the differences in their characters ie DS1 behaving as described and DS2 being more placid. Me and my sister suffered from this and now don't speak and I really don't my kids to end up in that situation.

consistency is all with kids of this age (any age for that matter)

You will not be able to turn it all round in a few days.

Pick the three things that are causing the most trouble at the moment. Decide with your dh what the rules are for these and what the punishment will be if the rule is broken. Decide how many warnings will be given.

Stick to this. If you don't, you will be getting yourself into a worse state.

expect it to be holy hell for a few days.....but it WILL get better. You can't expect perfection over night but you can insist on your rules. You are the adult here.

Don't go down the counselling route just yet. Your son is making the most of inconsistent rules. This doesn't make him a monster or bad, it makes him a perfectly normal child who is getting away with murder.

And you are not bad either. We all fuck up on times. Now is the time to turn it around. because however bad he is now it will get harder to turn him around as he gets older/

How is his eating?

He sounds like a child I know who is vile unless she eats every couple of hours. When she's fed she's a joy, but even slightly peckish she throws tantrums, breaks her toys and hates everyone. She's 7. She just needs half an apple or a breadstick and she's a different child.

The doing helpful jobs when in the right mood is my DD to a tee! She is 12 and will deliberately go against our family rules and therefore gets into trouble but I am sure she does it to wind us up Other times she will do chores like dishwasher, making drinks, etc without even being asked but if you ask her to do something its the end of the world!!

My DS is 10 and rather than fly of the handle he gets really upset, he will get tearful and not agressive which is equally hard to deal with as then people call him a wimp (this has happened at school(a teacher/MDSA) and at home with DH) whilst he doesnt do it often at school it has happened twice this year! He has a friend who hits out. I know which I prefer!

I think I could have written this 2 years agoSounds just like my now 9 yr old ds. And some other boys I know. Part of the problem with my DS was that,like your son, he was the oldest boy in my extended family and his behaviour seemed awful compared to his younger brother and cousins and tbh I think too much was expected off him. The younger ones now get away with far more than he ever did and I know my son has a bit of a chip on his shoulder about always being blamed. In saying this his older sister , who was an angelic child, was a bit of a handful too from about 8 to 11 and is acting up again at 13! However in the last few months his behaviour has greatly improved and I think he is just maturing a bit and his hormone levels settling down. According to his teacher it is quiet common with boys to settle down at about 9 1/2 and I have seen this with my son and other boys who were little horrors. He is still a small boy even if he is the oldest in his family. What could I recommend to you - well to begin with how we treated him. We use the 123 Magic programme (a time out sort of thing) which was brillant for us as it showed us how to defuse situations, effectively without fueling his rage. My DH and I always try to discipline the others the same way and for the same things as well so he is seeing fair treatment. I highlighted his sweet side to himself and to others and asked him to help out so he could achieve positive things iykwim. We both try to spend 1 on 1 time with him,and all our kids tbh, and recently he is doing a lot of things with his Dad as I think that role mirroring is important. Sports are good too, I don't think they lessen the aggression but our local clubs have strict behaviour rules and they have to be a team player.Most kids want to fit in and I think here peer pressure has good effect. I do try to avoid certain foods that make his sugar level peak - white carbs, ice cream ( give him 20 mins after a bowlful and he's in trouble).My DS is a lot happier in himself now I think,he understands that behaving badly will ultimatley leave him feeling miserable. Be firm, be consistent, praise the good but don't ignore the bad, be loving and don't let others label your DS at such a young age. I think also it is very important that everyone who has a role to play in raising him abide by the same practises, whether they be parents, relatives or nannies. Am sorry this is so long and hope it makes sense as I havn't had any caffine yet, its just been such a huge issue for me over the last 6 years.

Hello
Great posts from Janni, agree with them. And Mb. I think children know when adults feel like this about them and it makes matters worse so it's easy to get into a vicious circle.

Poor love, I reckon he is absolutely craving affection and attention and that's at the bottom of it. Good luck.

I have recently started a "mood' chart with ds1 (9) is is not at all nasty but is unhappy . At the end of every day he tells me where he is on his chart. It gives him a chance to :
Have some dedicated mummy time
To discuss his feelings and feel that he is heard
To explore solutions to problems

We then go through positive things we feel have happened in the day
This was very difficult for both of us at first but now he really looks forward to to and it has changed both our outlooks. You could try these?

I have 6 children btw and I know how difficult it is to keep everyone happy, but I have found that just giving him a little time after the others are in bed has helped him so much.

Guac,
DS1 is also like your ds1 and will make the most of tension especially if he has caused it, he will suddenly become smarmy and want to do what you have asked him am illion times to do and have ended up telling him off for not doing. Also if dp (his step father) and I do row which isn't often ds1 will (and 9 timesout of 10 with a smirk on his face) start rallying around doing various odd jobs as if he is trying to prove something.

We made a deal with him on xmas day that if he took the rubbish out everyday he would get pocket money to add to his pirates of the carribean and wwe sets which we bought him. However much we try it doesn't seem to get through to him which as his mum riles me as he is a very intelligent little boy....he is far ahead of his peers in many ways but then in others he is not. Also we have probs when dps son comes and visits (very rare) he is almost 14 but we have to pussy foot around him as he is not as advanced as many his age, can't make a drink, toast, sandwiich etc. So then ds1 feels glee that he can do what his step brother can't and dp and I end up arguing as dp gets annoyed and I have started to realise he is not annoyed at ds1 but at his almost 14 yr old.
OOppss sozz went off a bit there.

Ds1, has such a sweet side that when he does do naughty things it really annoys me especially as they seem to out number the good iyswim. I have tried taking him to tai kwando, karate, swimming, and am now going to try cubs. None of the other activities helped him channel his frustraions (?) Also tried dance, recorder lessons, choir. Again to no help. Offered guitar lessons as he wanted and was bought an electric guitar by us last xmas but he doesn't want to know.

Oh i Dunno what to do....how does 123 magic work????? I give him warnings and then send him to his room but he normally refuses to go until i get up and take him there then it is a battle to make him stay in there. anyone got any other ideas????

Guac,
DS1 is also like your ds1 and will make the most of tension especially if he has caused it, he will suddenly become smarmy and want to do what you have asked him am illion times to do and have ended up telling him off for not doing. Also if dp (his step father) and I do row which isn't often ds1 will (and 9 timesout of 10 with a smirk on his face) start rallying around doing various odd jobs as if he is trying to prove something.

We made a deal with him on xmas day that if he took the rubbish out everyday he would get pocket money to add to his pirates of the carribean and wwe sets which we bought him. However much we try it doesn't seem to get through to him which as his mum riles me as he is a very intelligent little boy....he is far ahead of his peers in many ways but then in others he is not. Also we have probs when dps son comes and visits (very rare) he is almost 14 but we have to pussy foot around him as he is not as advanced as many his age, can't make a drink, toast, sandwiich etc. So then ds1 feels glee that he can do what his step brother can't and dp and I end up arguing as dp gets annoyed and I have started to realise he is not annoyed at ds1 but at his almost 14 yr old.
OOppss sozz went off a bit there.

Ds1, has such a sweet side that when he does do naughty things it really annoys me especially as they seem to out number the good iyswim. I have tried taking him to tai kwando, karate, swimming, and am now going to try cubs. None of the other activities helped him channel his frustraions (?) Also tried dance, recorder lessons, choir. Again to no help. Offered guitar lessons as he wanted and was bought an electric guitar by us last xmas but he doesn't want to know.

Oh i Dunno what to do....how does 123 magic work????? I give him warnings and then send him to his room but he normally refuses to go until i get up and take him there then it is a battle to make him stay in there. anyone got any other ideas????

I have a ds the same but he is now 12yo the verbal just gets louder, and I have tried everything in the book, from ignoring to talking,l shouting, banning things, grounding him, I just think its him and I can't change that, I know he is hyperactive, dyslexic and dysphraxic! so has alot of copeing strategies that he has taken on board. Apparently he is not naughty at school, the comment was 'yet'

My family don't support me, and I have never had a day without him as no-one will look after him.

I feel like you, that you feel as if you are the only one left in their corner, it feels like a personal battle.

I can't even take my son to the shops, he shows us up something awful if he doesn't get his own way, which he doesn't I hasten to add. The neighbours hate him and he causes grief with his sibling twins 4yo

I will be interested to read what options and answers work.

Good luck.

You know, I think some children's personalities are such that they refuse to be parented in a conventional manner. Those parents HAVE to look outside the box because otherwise it's just one argument after another, and a relationship which falls to pieces as the years go by.

Like the children who DEMAND to co-sleep, refusing to sleep anywhere except with parent(s), and parents find that, without really meaning to, they've turned into "Attachment Parents".

For children who JUST DON'T RESPOND WELL to constant tellings off, can I suggest www.takingchildrenseriously.com ? Somewhat radical philosophy - you can go and ask questions about it at The Frog Pond because the TCS site itself is pretty static at the moment.

Certainly turned around the way I view children and my responsibilities to them.

INteresting emmaagain- I have to parent all 3 of mine in totally different ways. I guess the way I parent very conventional 'good', laid back and easy ds2 is how I thought I would parent my children, the other 2 have forced me to do things totally differently. Those websites sounds as if they may be good for ds3 so thank you!

www.parentmagic.com/

lol forgot rest of message. Link for information on the 123 magic method. www.parentmagic.com/

MB's post sounds good to me. Write down what the boundaries/consequences are in your house. Pin them to the fridge. Have a family council, delcare the rules.

THEN and more importantly, spend some time with him. YES! Absolutely praise the things he does that you don't get - 'wow, you fought that pokemon brilliantly, how did you know how to do that?' etc etc.

Find a place for the rage - a box to kick. Tell him to breathe in through his nose and out through his mouth. You do the same. If you feel yourself getting cross, leave the room.

Don't get drawn into fights. State what you want to happen, give warning, point at the fridge, walk away.

Give him some time to change behaviours and have lots of patience. Make sure he knows he isn't horrid, make sure he knows that you have a part of your heart which is all his. Tell him this. Tell him you love him. Play a board game, go to a movie the two of you. Tell his Dad to sort himself out, and to take him out on his own a bit, not with ds2 swimming etc.

This parenting, take heart - it's not meant to be easy. He'll be fine, think ahead.

I wondered about school too, though you say that's going OK? He does sound frustrated doesn't he, and being bored or feeling like he's struggling at school could both have that effect. But I think everyone else's suggestions - and especially praise, and one-on-one time - are excellent. I am from a big family (5 of us) and it's so important if you can manage it - with his Dad and the nanny too. With littler ones there are so many moments - feeding, changing, dressing - that ensure some attention of this kind, perhaps he is feeling that loss. I remember feeling very jealous of my younger sisters on that score!

Re food (Wanderingholly's post) I have been wondering for a while if he is suffering from hypoglacemia (sp??) which both my dad and sister have. They used to fly off the handle about the smallest things and the thing about little snacks often is supposed to be the way to treat this condition I think. Maybe I should take him to the doctor. I have avoided professional help so far as I believe that, in most cases, the issues are down to parenting and it feels a bit like passing the buck.

DS1 has gone to Granny's for a few days (arranged pre starting this thread) and has phoned me at least 8 times since he left yesterday lunchtime. Maybe it is because I am starting to see him as an unhappy little boy but he sounds dead miserable there even though he asked to go and is being spoiled rotten so now I feel guilty that he may think I have sent him away to be away from him and he wants to be home!. Also means I have not been able to continue trying the approaches suggested and, now that I have so many good ideas to work on, I want to get on with things before I go back to work and the nanny comes back (I'm not expecting overnight success - I know this will be a long haul).

I am finding everyone else's experiences of similar children really interesting (and reassurring TBH ). I don't know anyone else who has a similar child so thought I really was on my own.

Hi

I had exactly the same issues with my oldest son, now 10. There was a time when school, friends, family and even dad said he needed to "see someone" and that he was unmanageable. I always felt he was basically a good kid but we just did not know how to deal with him. I knew I was incredibly inconsistent with him, threatening all kinds and not following any of it through, I was at my wit's end for years. I screamed, i pleaded, I even smacked, I cried, everything ( I thought).

I then bought some fantastic books: Setting limits for your strong willed child by Ed D Robert J MacKenzie, The Manipulative Child: How to Regain Control and Raise Resilient, Resourceful, and Independent Kids (Paperback)
by E. W., Jr. Swihar and How to talk so your child will listen and listen so your child will talk. First book especially was major eye opener. Author has two sons, one "easy" one "stong-willed". His methods are easy and work. Within days I had a different child, the sweet, gregarious, helpful boy I alwasy knew was underneath it all was out! I had to re-read the book every few months to remind myslef, but now, 4 years later, he is mostly the most helpful, lovely, calm (!) boy. He is still loud, and talks too much and will try to push his limits every now and then, he is very bright and will never just accept things without checking them out first, but the difference is stunning.

Don't give up, give yourself a helping hand, trust your mother's instinct, it won't always be like this, help is but a few days away.

Jennie, thanks
Have just ordered my copies of the manipulative child and aetting limits off of amazon, £12.99 for both. here's hoping they help. xxx

It's been several months since my Xmas meltdown and I just wanted to post an update on how things have been since I tried changing tack with DS1.

To say he is now an angel would be a lie but I can see a big improvement. I think the big change came when I stopped seeing his bad behaviour as somehow a deliberate attempt to upset me but as a sign of his unhappiness. I am now much less likely to explode at him and our relationship has really improved. He still has his moments but don't they all!

Also I have found that taking an interest in his interests (however boring / incomprehensible) has helped too. I might have to talk about Warhammer for 10 minutes but as a result he seems to be more willing to listen to me on other things.

I have moved him and DS1 into separate bedrooms (only in the last couple of weeks) and that also seesm to help in their relationship. They actively want to spend time with each other now.

Just need to work on DS1s relationship with DH and Nanny and my work is done!.

Well, maybe not, but I feel like a normal mum with normal parental issues rather than a sole survivior in a pit of despair.

So thank you everyone!

Well done

That's good to hear - it was a useful thread, thank you

My beautiful 8 year old has turned 9. She has everything maybe too much lotsof attention she quite a worrier and clingy bottles things up but we've always had a special bond. Recently she seems so unhappy she cries everyday is so mean to her unbelievable kind sister. I try and catch her being nice but shes just not at the moment I know she must hear me say who kind and wonderful her sister is but she gets alot as we're scared of upsetting her so the little gets less and doesnt moan Please help this is my first time on I want my happy little girl back !!

Positivemum - have a read through this thread from the beginning. I was really at the end of my tether when I started this at Xmas and the suggestions and comments that came through from people were so helpful - if for nothing more than to give me food for thought and something positive to do when I felt really helpless and at a loss! Hope some of it works for you. There is a post about half way through about a DS going through a bad stage from 9 - maybe it is an age thing. Godd luck!!