HELP... Freaked out and worried new mum having emotional meltdown...

[designerbaby]

... And I KNOW I really have no right/reason to be.

Gave birth to a ridiculously healthy 9lb 8oz baby girl almost 3 weeks ago. She seemed to get the hang of feeding pretty quickly, and I've had very little pain/discomfort breastfeeding. She only lost 100g of her birthweight in the first 3 days, and had regained it all plus an extra 2 oz by day 5. When last weighed (at 2 1/2 weeks) she was 10lbs 4oz, and has visibly grown. All this is GOOD, right?

But in the last couple of days I seems to have lost the plot.

During the day she's regular as clockwork and wakes up wanting food about every 3 1/2 to 4 hours, but she only feeds for about 10-15 minutes at a time. After this she shuts her little mouth firmly shut and will have no more. NO amount of burping/nappy changing offering second breast will coax her into taking more. Her poos have gone from yellow to greenish and very watery, and I'm worried this means she's not getting enough hind milk because of hr short feeds.

However, our evenings spiral into chaos confusion and tears on all sides... from anywhere between 6 and 8pm (depending on when the last feed happens in that time) she is impossible to settle. She is usually awake and distressed from that point until between 2 and 4 am. She seems to want to feed every 1 1/2 to 2 hours during that time (which would be fine by me if she would settle in between) but then sucks for only about 5 minutes before starting to scream and thrash around wildly. I'll try burping her and changing her and cuddling to try and get her to calm down. I've tried swaddling and sitting in a dark room in case she was over-stimulated. At some point she usually gets the hiccups which can last for up to half an hour. Then I figured that maybe my milk supply was low, so I tried preparing a bottle of formula - you would have thought I'd tried to give her bleach - she screamed even louder and thrashed about even more. Eventually I think sheer exhaustion takes over from having cried and thrashed about for anything up to 8 hours and she falls asleep.

I then have to wake her in the morning (left it until 9am this morning after a 2am finish) as she's dead to the world, for fear that she'll sleep through the day and not want to go to sleep (again) at night.

I've been using Infacol for the past couple of days in the hope that this is caused by wind, and although she burps better and farts more, the distress is still happening.

We have no resemblance of a routine... I'm worried we're setting ourselves up for months of this. I feel completely out of control and helpless - I don't know what's upsetting her or what to do to calm her down.

I've been trying to write this for most of the day - today it has all started again after feeding her at 4pm - I've just managed to get her down now after another feed at 6 and 45 minutes of walking her around the house. She's still restless though, and I doubt I'll have much down time before it starts again.

I've spent most of today in tears, feel completely exhausted - more from the emotional tension as from lack of sleep. My back is killing me from walking her around the house and I feel sick with worry and dread of another 8 hours of it this evening...

ANY ideas out there? I don't know how many more evenings/nights of this I can cope with... It's not the sleep (I can manage without) it's the 6-8 hours of distress and crying I can't cope with.

Help...

DB
xx

It does pass, it really does. It might seem like forever whilst you're going through it but honestly, you won't even remember this stage in 6 months time.

Feed the baby keeping her in as much as an upright position as possible. Then gently rub her back, keeping her upright, even swaying her gently. If that fails, put the baby on it's back and put her legs into a 'frog' position, then squeeze her thighs gently in towards her tummy, this should make her fart.

And welcome to Mumsnet!

I will 2nd Scroggins on this one - routines worked a dream for both mine, v gentle at first, but always being awake by 7.30, and settling off to sleep (in theory) by 7pm, with regualr sleeps in the day. If they sleep late, it is hard to squeeze in 5 feeds in waking hours and they get over tired.

My DD went through a delightful week of screaming for 4 hours solidly all evening at... 3 weeks old, sounds exactly the same. Seemed fine all day, and at 6pm on the dot, she wold start. I spent 2 days carrying her round in a sling (she did this on holiday in a static caravan, my DH nearly left me) when we got home, to get her to sleep regularly and leave 3 hrs between feeds, and then, lo and behold the evenings got better.

Don't worry about the short feeds, she's a big girl and probably has a good strong suck. I sometime off DD a second go at the first side about 1 hour after her inital scoffing fest. She may or may not take it. She is 14 weeks now and STILL only takes from 1 side, and STILL often feeds for only 10 minutes at a time. She is thriving

this lady, susan, cranial osteo, was great for us. we went just 3 times, didn't need anymore she sais (she was right). i didn't want to stop going.

this was a couple of years ago.

getting through the long colicky evenings, some suggestions i can remember which helped us pass the long hours and days:

sling
you: lie down and cluster feed with good books to hand, and supply of drinks, meals/snacks brought to you
good long walks out of the house during the worst of it each evening (weather against you this w/e!)
dim quiet rooms, reinforcing the 'this is night' message
don't look at the dust bunnies collecting
don't fret about the rest of the housework
hire a cleaner/up current ones hours for 1-2 months
plug into radio/podcasts on ear buds
sing same song a million times, quietly, while lulling with gentle rubs, minor key songs worked best
keep swapping over with other half
have a bath with baby, if she's not too frantic
sit in front of computer and research and chat and email, while wearing dd in sling and rocking gently
don't take it personally as a comment on your parenting
if you feel particularly enervated by it, find something to nervous tic off the energy: drawing, knitting

good luck, good luck. in retrospect, it is a brief phase - 7 weeks for us it was - to be honest we just kind of laughed when we weren't crying, that all the cliches about being parents of a newborn were true! x

link to osteo would help

the colic will pass, and you have my sympathies.

I got some baby massage strokes from m,y HV for relieving colic. Ask if there is a class near you as they are often run by the NHS.

If she only feeds for a bit, can you try putting her back to that breast the next time she feeds....this will help her to get some hind milk.

Infacol worked wonders for us, but you can try drinking fennel tea and you can give some (a teaspoonful before a feed)to the baby (fennel being the principal ingredient of gripe water iirc)

White noise helps settle colicky babies too. Friends of mine used to leave the telly on an untuned channel, or hoover or sit bub in front of the tumble drier for a bit.

It is so hard this stage and seems to go on forever, but it'll pass

The three things I found that helped with colic were:

1. dummy - DD wanted to suck, but didn't want any more milk. I used an orthopaedic dummy which she gave up at about 5 months (by this time colic had gone and was different baby).

2. white noise - I got a cd from littlesleepyhead.co.uk,

3. Miracle blanket - this was the only swaddling blanket that I found that actually worked. You can buy them from mothercare, and various other on-line suppliers.

I also found "happiest baby on the block" by Harvey Karp interesting.

Do not worry about bad habits. A baby at 3 weeks is very different to a baby at 4 months. I don't think that new borns are developmentally capable of picking up bad habits. A routine will also come with time, but possibly not for another 4 months or more. I know its tough, but in the mean time, it may be easier to go with the flow for a few weeks and just do whatever it takes so you can get some sleep.

Message withdrawn

Thanks so much everyone - and Merryberry - especially for the link - Finsbury Park is just down the road from us, so will check it out.

Many, many thanks for all your help and advice... She's been going since 4pm today, and still isn't asleep - fed at 4, 6.30, 9 and just now at 11... DH is with her trying to settle her for the millionth time...

DB
xx

Hi Designerbaby, it will all be fine! Don't worry about routines at all yet. My LO also was always incredibly hungry in the evenings , but quite regualr and restrained with daytome feeds, I used to call it the witching hour, she was like a baby possessed in the evenings....But she did start to get a normal night day pattern on her own eventually. I did cut out choclate at one point when it seemed to me that it was worse after some choccy- looking back im not sure this really was relevant, but as a non tea/coffee drinker, it could well have been too stimulating for her.

I did run into problems at one point when she fed non stop and I realised that because her latch was inadequate- she wouldnt open her mouth wide enough and was doing lots of nipple feeding- v sore for me- but I think this makes it hard for her to draw down the fatty hindmilk, so she was taking lots of v watery foremilk, then v soon after feeling hungry again, and feeding again, so my milk supply was overstimulated- fountains- sounds like you have the same problem? I suspected this had happened paradoxically because bf'ing had been so easy at first, she just seemed to know what to do, so I had gotten maybe a bit complacent and wasnt really paying much attention, just sticking her on then carrying on chatting/eating/whatever! What I did to correct it was just try to make her open her mouth v widely and only shove the boob in when she was open more, (and watch her constantly to check she wasnt sliding further down the nipple)- she seemd to get the hang of it and things actually became much better, she fed less often, seemed more settled and my niplles were less sore, and my fountains dried up a bit....

The other thing, fron 3 weeks until 6 wks I went to bed at 9 or ten pm and DH would give her a bottle of formula, then put her in her crib next to me when she was asleep, I would then feed her when she woke at 2 ish, made me feel much more human......then at 6 weeks she started sleeping through and I wanted to stay up late so we didnt bother with that any more....might be worth having another go at that, often my LO wouldnt want any of the formula, she did seem to know the difference, but DH said some nights she put away quite a lot, I think I would have gone mad if I hadnt had that sleep

Good luck! Youll be fine. Babies are meant to cry, and IMO its like trying to make water run uphill, trying to force a baby to do something it doesnt want to ie sleep when wants to wake, wake when wants to sleep, so dont waste your time or energy!

Message withdrawn

I saw a bloke on tv who claimed to stop any baby crying by
swaddling tightly
holding with head slightly down
and jiggling up and down fairly fast
All supposed to mimic the womb. seemed to work.
We always used to swaddle tightly (arms in) and hold upright while patting on the back and jogging up and down and singing a fairly fast song (What shall we do with a crying baby early in the morning ) and failing that we would put him in pram or car and go for a walk or drive.
It doesn't last long because soon you will be able to give gripe water, good luck

Message withdrawn

Ok, I realise this may not be a popular view, but it's worked for both my babies. The first of which had horrendous all-day colic. And if your baby has colic, you'll try anything - right?

I think your baby is not feeding enough during the day (she's getting most of her calories at night) and needs to have a proper (both breasts) feed at least every 3 hours between the hours of 7 or 8 am to 10 or 11pm.

At this age, she probably still needs a period of cluster feeding and I would aim to do this all afternoon until bedtime

I would suggest gently waking her up if she sleeps through a feed. I would also start a very loose bedtime routine, bed at say 7 or 8 and then a dream feed at 10 or 11pm.

At first she will probably take ages to settle, but she will gradually learn than to sleep at night.

Now, this won't cure the colic, but what it will mean is that she will have her colicky period during the day. Which is easier to cope with.

The colic will disappear of its own accord at around 4 mths. but things that can help are: white noise, swaddling & a dummy.

Good Luck

I think there's something in this 'not getting enough feeding in during the day'... question though, she's so sleepy she's very hard to wake for feeds and even if I manage it she dozes off on the breast after 5-10 minutes and no amount of burping, foot rubbing, cheek tickling or undressing makes the slightest difference...

How can I keep her awake more? The books say she should be awake for 2 hours at a stretch, but she's often nodding off after 1 hour.

I think her night-time escapades are wearing her out and she sleeps it off during the day (wish I could too...)

Just confused as to how to switch it so all this activity is happening during the day, when, you're right, it would be much easier to cope with...

How do you get them to feed when they're not interested? And how do you get them to feed longer then 10 minutes when they've resolutely shut their little mouth and won't open it again for any amount of cajoling?

You see, this is where I feel the most helpless... I know what I should be trying to do, but she just won't play ball...

DB
xx

Oh, and one other question... (sorry, being very demanding, but you're all so helpful, and really I've no-one else to ask...)

She seems to hate baths, but everyone says it's an important bed-time routine, so should be just persevere and hope she'll grow to love it? And should I feed her before or after her bedtime bath?

Thanks

DB
xx

Designerbaby poor you, like so many have said I have complete sympathy Its very hard being a new mum.
I would try to wake her every 2-3 hours to feed and try to increase her milk intake during the day. If she is overtired which it sounds like she could be, then this will affect her appetite.
Obviously I can only say what worked for me with dd, which is after 6 wks of this sort of crying and unsettled behaviour, we put her into a regular feeding and sleep times. It took about 2 wks of persevering but worked well after that.
I always bathed dd in the am as I found that she was too tired in the evening to enjoy it.
When she got bigger we went on to night time bathing and then she had her last feed before bed.

bath important bed-time routine for older children/babies I think. Keep her top & tailed with flannels for now and bath once a week. All midwives I had for post-natal care after my 3 were v into weekly baths for such young babies & I found it such a relief. When they're older they'll enjoy (or not!) baths more.
Fennel has anti-windy (medical term ) properties. Was given it in hospital after CS and though was at first it helped with my sore tum & colicky ds1 and when the others had bouts.

my children both were unsettled between the hours of 6 - 8pm.. you know.. just when hubby comes in wanting his tea... and the baby just wants to be held...
I'm also in favour of a bedtime routine.. we I used to wake ours at about 10pm ish and give them a bath, for the first week they would scream.. so we just made it as quick as possible, then it would be a quick massage before giving them a feed in a quiet darken room... then burp them.. give them just a little bit more then put them down while they are sleepy..

they soon enjoyed their bath, and the 2:30/3am feed soon got later and later till they were soon going through the night.. then I moved the bedtime forward half an hour to an hour each week till they were going through 7-7... I thought I was just lucky with my DD but I did the same with DS and he soon slept through as well...

This stage won't last forever, even if it seems to at the moment....
good luck

and re bath, do it whenever you like - dd (3m) finds it tremendously exciting rather than relaxing so at the moment we bath in the morning and sing songs before bed instead.

Am taking cover at singing praises of routines, but having a plan saved my sanity and gave me confidence when i experienced a similar thing with dd, who started to settle down at about 7 weeks.

She was just too tired by 4pm ish, i think, and life would descend into a screaming hell. I got into breastfeeding her around then, taking her for a walk then putting her in bath and giving her bottle feed (too knackered for anything else) before putting her in bed. slept til ten then fed again, slept til 6- ish.

She seemed to settle after about 7 weeks. With hindsight, dd seems to be one of those people that get too tired to sleep, the more sleep she has at night, the more she wants in the day. So keeping her awake in day so she'd sleep at night, as directed by midwife, was making problem worse.

I put a rolled up towel under crib mattress so dd slept slightly propped up and that seemed to work nicely.

Just goes to show all babies are different. If she stops feeding from you, it's cos she's had enough. First few weeks are total madness but everything is just a phase and it will get easier, honestly.

I also had a really strong let down, and ds's poo was green for ages until I started to express a bit of the foremilk, and get more hindmilk into him. Because of the letdown, he was really fussy in the evenings too. See here for advice on this.

if she really hates it, give bath a rest for a week or 2. new babies often hate being undressed, but at some point they start loving it. Can't remember when this was with DD - 8 weeks?

Also, I think very few babies can stay awake for 2 hours when new born. I think most books say they should be awake for max 2 hours, not minimum 2 hours. Interestingly, Mark Weissbluth "Healthy Sleep Happy Child". Has a theory that feeding and sleeping cycles are out of sync in new borns and this accounts for alot of the difficult times.

Somebody has already mentioned Harvey Karp's Happiest Baby on the Block. This is from an article about the book:

" Babies, like adults, have reflexes. Most important, Karp says, they have a
calming reflex"nature's shut-off switch"that parents can learn to
trigger in "the fourth trimester," as Karp calls the baby's first three
months of life. Karp's prescription for a quiet baby rests in what he calls
"the 5 S's"--swaddling, side/stomach position, shhhing, swinging and
sucking--techniques and traditions he learned from his studies of ancient
and modern cultures.

"We don't know the cause of why babies are colicky. But these are methods
he's tried with his patients and have worked, and he puts it all together in
the book in a simple and systematic matter," says Dr. Morris Green, who
heads the behavioral and developmental pediatrics division at Indiana
University's School of Medicine and has read the book.

To calm a fussy baby, Karp says, wrap him tightly in a square blanket,
pinning the baby's arms against his sides so he can't break loose. This
simply sets the stage for the calming efforts to come, so don't be alarmed
if your baby initially cries harder at being swaddled. Next, position him in
your arms on his side or stomach; make a shhhh sound loudly in his ear to
imitate the sounds he heard in the uterus; swing the baby; and, finally,
give him something to suck on.

Although some infants will respond quickly to two or three of the steps, the
most colicky newborns will require all five, Karp says. For those infants,
each stage is a layer that builds on previous ones. "If you do these things,
and you do them correctly, it will be like a miracle," Karp says."

I don't know if the 5 s's will help - neither of mine were criers which was nothing to do with their routines (DS didn't have one until about 6 months, DD has pretty well always had one), I was just bloody lucky - but I've heard good things about Karp's technique. Much, much sympathy in the meantime.

Infacol is fab fab fab

we started evening routine from 12 weeks ish

my hv told me to wake and feed my dd every 2 hours in the day as she was sleeping like an angel all day and howling like a banshee all night. It worked - marked improvement after a week and pretty much sorted after 3.

cosleeping also worked for us - propped up with dd on my chest

a dummy also saved my life - we only gave at sleep time and it's never been a problem in the day, dd is now 13 months.

cranial osteopathy is available through many doctors surgeries - I'd try your surgery first.

Good luck, it will improve.

Thank goodness I'm not alone - my son is 18 days old and this sounds very similar to my experience, particularly the 'oh god, if it's like this now will it be like this in 3 months, how will we cope' and the worry that if we don't get it right now, we're setting ourselves up for a nightmare later.

The major thing for me is the night/day confusion - my son would sleep for hours in the daytime but is ready to party at night. Can I ask how you wake a baby enough to take food? I try but if he's not interested, he's not interested - like Designerbaby's baby, his tiny mouth shuts like a trap (I also have the fast let-down thing and milk literally shoots out of me; poos are sometimess green and there's a lot of wind despite all the books saying that breastfed babies don't get it ). Or will he just work out night and day by himself at some point?

Thanks in advance (and sorry for the hi-jack)