Childrens's Manners - what matters?

[Earlybird]

Bit slow around here tonight, so here's another Saturday night topic - what manners do you feel it is important to teach your children? I was raised in quite a formal family, and while I want dd to be well mannered, think that some of what was drilled into me was a bit rigid/unecessary for today's more casual times. What manners are important to you?

So when do people usually start expecting good manners to show? Dd is 2 and says please quite readily and thankyou sometimes spontaneously and sometimes I have to remind her. I find it hard to imagine her saying please for every single thing she asks for though as it seems vaguely to me to stunt something in her naturally toddler excitability. Sometimes she sees something that so amazes her she might cry out 'ooh, look, a balloon, mummy get it!' and to say to her 'say please' seems like such a wet blanket ...

Does anyone teach their children to give up their seats to adults on public transport? Used to have to do this as a child and have noticed it never seems to happen any more.
Ds is only one so isn't really an issue yet although nursery have taught him to say 'ta'. Too embarrassed to tell them I'd rather they didn't (when I was growing up, ta was a bit ... well, common I suppose. Don't hate me, just one of my mother's rules that I can't shake off! Would rather wait until he can say an approximation of 'thank you' - really cute when you hear small children say 'nk oo').

Agree with you about "ta" Edam.

prefernot - I agree. Sometimes it just isn't the time to remind little ones of manners. Not when they say it other times anyway. I think you tend to know which times are appropriate or not to insist ont he pleases, and when it's okay to ignore a lapse.

The manners I insist on are,
please and thankyou
excuse me before pushing past
excuse me for all involuntary (or voluntary at times) evacuations from mouth and bum!
sharing sweets

dd is three

Have to admit I maybe am a bit lax at mealtimes, she is a good eater and loves her food and I don;t want to lose this by making meal times about rules. Being a foodie like her mother she will say thankyou for a good meal and I appreciate that sponatanous thanks as it is genuine. I allow her to get down from the table when she has finished as long as she asks as I tend to sit and chat at the table and eat slow and she gets bored. Don't really see the point in making toddlers sit at the table bored if they have finished eating.

But a beautiful display of manners we went to a few houses we know tonight trick or treating and she thought it was awfully rude to ask people for sweets so she knocked on doors and said have a treat and gave away her sweets!

The manners I insist on are,
please and thankyou
excuse me before pushing past
excuse me for all involuntary (or voluntary at times) evacuations from mouth and bum!
sharing sweets

dd is three

Have to admit I maybe am a bit lax at mealtimes, she is a good eater and loves her food and I don;t want to lose this by making meal times about rules. Being a foodie like her mother she will say thankyou for a good meal and I appreciate that sponatanous thanks as it is genuine. I allow her to get down from the table when she has finished as long as she asks as I tend to sit and chat at the table and eat slow and she gets bored. Don't really see the point in making toddlers sit at the table bored if they have finished eating.

But a beautiful display of manners we went to a few houses we know tonight trick or treating and she thought it was awfully rude to ask people for sweets so she knocked on doors and said have a treat and gave away her sweets!

I have taught dd to gibe up her seat on the bus and I am shocked how few other children do this, she also says thankyou to bus drivers as she gets off the bus,

dh was brought up in a formal home too and is VERY hot on table manners. His mum used to poke him in the elbow with her fork if his elbows were on the table. I don't think he would do this to our dd's (i hope not anyway!), but he is already teaching dd1 (aged 3.9) how to use a knife and fork properly, and she can do it too when she puts her mind to it! Personally I think he's a bit OTT about it all but, I guess there's worse things than having good table manners (and I'm learning a lot too. My table manners are quite shocking!)

I insist on pleases, thank you's, trying to leave places in much the same state as you found them (or better), pardon's and excuse me's as appropriate, and sorry's. Overall a general attitude of trying to be considerate and respectful of other people and expressing yourself in a nice way is my ethos with manners.

Completely take your point about mad bus drivers in S London Batters, had three crashes in a year where we used to live (and you have to be pretty cr*p to crash a bus, for heaven's sake, surely?). But in most cases it's not an issue of safety, just a custom that seems to have been ditched. Drives me mad when you see adults with their kids on the tube, taking up four seats when the kids could sit on the laps and let someone else sit down.

I'd always stand up first, with or without dds, and hope that they learn by that. Sanctimonious cow I am!

I think I'm in general agreement with most things mentioned. We don't eat much "knofe and fork" type food, more pasta or rice based stuff so she's not great with a knife. But elbows off the table and so on is encouraged. Don't do "please may I leave the table" either as we all sit there until everyone's finished and DD is usually last.

She would spontaneously say "hello" to someone she recognised, but won't always talk to strangers and i'm not going to push it.

I don't think a child under 10 should give up their seat on public transport (mostly from a safety point of view) but will lift her on my lap for a short journey or give up my seat and let her sit. However, the person in question would have to be pregnant or seriously doddery or me to do this. There are far too many perfectly robust and extremely rude adults of a certain age for me to bother too much about this sort of thing.

We've reached a compromise on the what vs.pardon thing. She now says "sorry?" with an australian intonation.

Please and thank you always (I'm afraid my hair stands on end when visiting children say "I want a drink" and I can't help but correct them ).

Please may I get down (if whole family is eating together, they have to wait until everyone's finished before they can).

Not getting up and down from the table while they're eating.

ds is terrible at barging past people, so we're working on that one (and yes, he says "excuse me" while he does it!)

Agree with jampot - I really don't like being blanked by children I know, so encourage mine to always say hello.

I think good manners are still vital, even in today's more casual society.

I don't make my 2yo stand on public transport either, unless I am able to have her sat on my knee. It just isn't safe for her to do so, any more so than an adult.

On the Underground last month all the seats were taken. I had bags in my hands and my DD with me. We had to stad and hold on to the bars, next to the seats. Where two men were sat. Both looked at us as we got on; one helped lift the buggy forward out of the way with DH. But then sat back down again. Poor DD was really struggling at times, but no offer of a seat. Two women opposite, both with children both commented on it loudly, sayiong how rude people were and how much "that little girl there" really needed to be sat down. But nothing. Sad times I guess.

this is timely

marialuisa - thanks for posting that. While I don't wish to return to the stifling more formal times of our parents, I also miss basic decency and civility toward others in our own homes, and out in the world at large. Agree with all of you that say that manners are largely straightforward consideration of others and a "do unto others" approach.

Definitely please and thank you. I also have a thing about saying 'may I' rather than 'can I'. Covering mouth when coughing, using tissue when sneezing. 'Sorry' rather than 'pardon'. Thank you notes. Greeting friends. Giving others a biscuit before taking one himself. Working on not talking with his mouth full but he's only two.
Lord, I sound like a scary mama but it's not that bad!

On the topic of manners, what do your children call adults - first name, Mr X, Mrs X, etc??

The usual thing in Texas is for children to call adults they know well by their first name but with a Mr or Ms in front of it - Ms Kellie, Mr John, etc but DH says that sounds too weird in England. That's fine but is just calling adults by first names too casual? And how do you determine when to use last names?

We also have the 'No, sir', 'Yes ma'am' issue. DS should follow those rules when we're in Texas but they do sound strange, even to my ears, in England.

Sorry Tex111 but I think the "sir" and "ma'am" thing will have to be taught as culturally specific.

My dbro (9)and his mates use this when they're being a little bit cheeky, so I think in the U.K. you'd risk people thinking your DS was taking the mick.

Oh and the Miss Whatever thing reminded me of a little explanation i had to give to a Texan student....The guy is 10 years older than me but insisted on addressing me as Miss X. Ended up saying that if he couldn't call me just X then I'll answer to Mrs Y but never miss X!

Does anyone else find the habit of addressing emails and letters to (for example) Kate Jones, rather than just Kate or Ms Jones weirdly annoying?

Marialuisa, yep. I thought sir/ma'am would end up 'just for Papa and Nana's house'. All the cultural differences are such a minefield. Even eating with a knife and fork. Has anyone noticed that Americans use their knife to cut with their right hand, put the knife down, switch the fork back to the right hand and continue eating with just the fork! I'm definitely a convert to the British way but am teased constantly when I'm in the States. Oh well, I guess DS will learn to live with these differences. I just don't want o offend anyone or have him thought of as an oddity once he reaches school.

back on manners (I'm avoiding the name issue - don't get me started on Mrs John Jones), I think the single most important manner is making eye contact. This seems to be the thing that my students find most difficult, and it would make the world of difference if they were able to. If you can make eye contact and therefore communicate sincerely you will overcome most of the difficulties of not knowing which manners someone finds particularly important, iyswim.

That's a cultural thing too though Fisil. The African/South East Asian students I deal with are extra careful NOT to look me in the eye as it's considered disrespectful.

It's really hard in discipline boards because their inability to make eye-contact is seen as a sign of shiftiness and they get a rougher ride.

I've been reading this thread and I don't know why, maybe there's a delinquent inside me somewhere but I find all this talk of 'manners' quite depressing. It's not that I'm raising a little maniac but there's something vaguely sanctimonious about it all. Please and thank you and everything else are good in moderation but being expected to stand up on a bus (yes, Batters I travel on SE London transport so I know exactly what you mean) or tube is too much. I think I'm living rather oddly at the moment though, dp and I are PhD educated middle-class folk but we live in a very deprived area of SE London where you're lucky if a lot of the kids don't spit at you rather than say anything 'polite.' Then the other day we went to Dulwich Park (just down the road really) and the whole area was full of these incredibly well-dressed little girls and boys, very articulately pleasing and thankyouing and it felt like such a culture shock I almost found their 'good behaviour' too much to bear.

Oh, sorry, I'm rambling. No sense. Tired. Usual, y'know, fudge brained mummy stuff.

I do know what you mean. Ds1's behaviour is so blunt and rude that I find ds2 quite prim (and funny). One of dh's friend's popped in tonight for a 5 minute visit- first time ever- no idea whether he knows that ds1 is autistic- and ds1 immediately started prodding the guys beer belly. Luckily he found it funny. He also tends to sniff people (actually I think he's feeling their clothes with his face). But of course he looks totally normal (he does the behaviour doesn't) so it can leave people spluttering. I also love the way when he asks for something using his PECS cards he'll just snatch it as soon as its offered then dash off to eat it somewhere (its usually food- not always though).

I lived in Japan for a while- and that was interesting as there was a very formulaic politness but then it was acceptable (for a man) to gob on a train! Cultural differences are interesting.