Ds1 again. I'm starting to wonder if his behaviour is ADD/ADHD, nothing has changed. He's still the hardest work. Yet at school he's a model pupil- helpful, caring, attentive.....It just doesn't make sense.

[LadyTophamHatt]

I am sooooo tired of his behaviour. I've looked online at the typical behaviour of ADD/ADHD and sooooo much if it is DS1.

He's rude to me, he has no respect for me (sometimes DH too but not at bad as me) he's a bully with his younger brothers, he ignores everyone unless it suits him. His make no attempt to do as he is told until its got to the point where I'm (or Dh) is screaming in his face.
It's like he's in his own little world. He doesn't concentrate on anything for more then and few minutes and is then on to the next thing...but is oblivious of them thing he's just left behind.

I could go on and on.

Yet at school he's the absolute opposite.
He helps the teachers, the younger children, runs errands for the teachers around school. Has had to many good behaviour stickers and head teacher awards its untrue.

This makes me think it can't be ADD/ADHD.

I know that I should be grateful he's like it at school but I'm truely at my witts end with him. He went out with Dh all day yesterday, not as treat but to give me a break. I took Ds2,3 and 4 bowling and for apizza after and the differnence in them when Ds1 isn't there is amzing. There wasn't a single raised voice from me, no arguing between them, we had a really nice day.
There no -way I would even concider do the same if DS1 was there too.

He gets positive attention at home, we do nice things, he isn't "hard done by" and yet his behaviour if anything has got worse.

i was chatting to someone the other day about how children change so much whent hey come home from school. it was mentioned that it can be because they feel comfortable at home. they#re in a totally different environment at school and so when they get home they just want to break free from sometimes trying to be good so much that they totally change into monsters. how old? and how long has he been at school?

the only example i can think of for what i'm trying to say is if you go to say a business lunch or dinner, you're dresed up to the nines and trying to make a really good impression, you;re not yourself, and then as soon as you get in you take you're shoes and just slob around for a while. it;s like that!

what is he like on a one-to-one basis with you when the others aren't around?

How old is he? What happens if you ask him why he behaves like he does at home?

Awww, LTH

Nobody's kids are good all the time (although some do spend a little bit more time being good than others ) but generally, when they want to be naughty they do it where they feel secure.

I used to know a boy whose mum spent hardly any time with him when he was little - she would leave him in his cot for whole afternoons while she gardened/sunbathed/did whatever else she wanted to do. When he got older he was good as gold in her presence, but a little sod everywhere else (including school).

No advice to offer, I'm sorry - he will grow out of it though, I'm sure.

Plus he is The Big Boy - that can be a bit of a burden sometimes.

he's 8 and a half.

Lucy, One-2-One, well TBh I don't do it with im because I just can't. we seem to wind each other up. DH does though and he's fine. They went to paris for the day recently and DHJ said it was like being with small adult for the day. The had lunch in cafe, walked around all the famous places and he was fine all day. I wouldn't even attempt that. i know I should but A) I haven't got time B) no-one of the other get it either C) he gets more than the others with Dh.

I asked for meeting with his teacher thins morning because I'm so tired of it. I don't want Ds1 to know so they have arranged for her to call me. When I asked at reception the school secretaries were geniunly shocked that I need to talk about his behaviour.

He is bright, and is in the top group for most subject BUT when it come to homework he can't be bothered to do any of it and we (normally me) has to sit and tell him each and every word to write.

The way he is with his brother upsets me more the anything else TBH.

Plain and simple - he's a bully

I've asked him so many times if he's do X,Y,Z to a yr 2 child(ds2 in yr2) or a recption child (ds3 is just 4, starts school next yr) and I know for fact he wouldn't. He wouldn't dream of hurting them, snatching , pushing, hitting....I know its because they're his brothers but he really goes over the mark at times.

brotherS

I agree, i think its to do with intelligence. My dd1 is a total nightmare, behaviour wise, has a nasty attitude towards most people especially myself and dd2. She is a fearless, bolshy, stroppy 7yr old. Does not do as she is told until i threaten her with death!!
The other day she stole £20 out of my purse! I was convinced that she hadnt taken it. As when i questioned her she just came out with "oh, thats odd" and "no, i havnt seen it". I was beginning to think perhaps i had miscounted the money in the first place, or i had actually lost it. The next day she said "I will help you find it mummy, as long as i can get a new lipstick from town if i find it" I agreed cos i needed the money and or any help toward finding it. She found it within 1 minute, saying it was down the side of my bed. There was absolutley no way i would have put it there or even dropped it there - so i knew she had taken it, but couldnt actually proove it.
The thing is she is so bright and clever (in all the top sets at school) that she has discovered how to twist things and to use her intelligence to her advantage.
Its very worrying, how on earth will she behave as a teenager?! It scares me to death, because i dont have a grip on her now at 7!
I do find that reward charts help alot. She gets ticks on her chart when she has been kind or helpful. After 1 week of charting she gets money to spend at the shops on what she likes. She loves this and i can see her trying really hard not to wind me her sister up. So i spose its about rewarding the good and ignoring the bad.
I find ignoring the bad very difficult. I just want to throttle her most of the time - and have come close a few times. Its really draining when everyday its a battle between me and her about most things.
I also find talking to her at bedtime the most succesful time to get through to her. She (as most kids do) drags out bedtime and loves me to lay on her bed with her for as long as possible. I use this to my advantage, explaining how much i love her and how i dont like her when she is rude and unkind. She seems to listen better at this time of night as there are no other distractions.
It has been suggested to me about adhd etc, but i dont think this is her, i think its just her superior intelligence and almost teenager like attitude combined that makes her such hard work!
She has always been hard work, even as a baby, when crawling toward grandmas ornaments, i say "no" in a stern voice, she couldnt of cared less. DD2 was entirley different, she would sob if i even looked at her sternly.
Chalk and cheese my two.

Ds1 who is 6 is being a total nightmare at the moment - mean to his sister, totally disregarding of any sort of obedience, ignores me or just says 'shan't' if I ask him to do something, is grumpy, bad tempered, rude, obnoxious. he also doesn't sleep properly - he is up till 11.30 (note we put him to bed at 8), because he 'can't sleep' which means we don't get an evening, he then comes and wakes us up at 5 or 6. It's a total nightmare.

At school he is a model pupil - never even had a sad face. Must be something to do with boys I think!!!

Hope your eldest settles a bit - I've only got 3, and you've got 4, but even with 3 it's hard work especially when the eldest is such hard going!

Oh blimey, don't get me started on the lies he tells.

Hand on my heart, i have never known a child to lie as much as Ds1 does. Over the tiniest most trivial thing.
80% of the time there isn't even any need to lie but he still does it anyway.

You see, i think lying is a sign of intelligence too. Covering their tracks, or just twisting a story to make it sound more elabourate takes skill.
Damned annoying though. We get alot of lying and she is severely punished for it.

I bought the peter and the wolf story - made no difference!
I explained about criminals in jail - made no difference!
She has been accused of doing things because she is just a liar and we dont know when to believe her - made no difference!

I'm a little puzzled by the link with intelligence - why would being intelligent make you behave badly at home? I might understand if they were badly behaved at school if they were bored and understimulated.

My dd1 teacher says, she behaves very well when in a structured working way. As soon as she is allowed any free play she goes crazy.

I think at home, there is very little structure and its all mostly free time.

I do find, that when she is occupied, either homework or her dancing class she excells. When just playing, or watching tv, she becomes harder/awkward/rude etc.

And anyway, by telling myself its her intelligence it makes me feel better about it.

its difficult to know what to suggest as when it comes to raising boys, i'm sure you could write a manual on the subject

maybe, as it is at home, with his brothers, and with you that he behaves like this it is all down to getting attention. we went through it a bit with dd when ds arrived, she was a bit put out and at the age of 4, started biting me, we put it down to what we called 'cat and the kitten', a new baby arrives, smaller, cuter etc, gets more attention from mum than the older one, this has happened for him 3 times.

maybe you do need to spend some time alone with him, i know you say he behaves badly when you do this, but it might be a case of going through the pain barrier with it before it improves. is there a specific activity that you can do with him, that requires his 'help' and only his as he's the oldest?, what about making and building something for the younger ones to play with that once he's helped doing, he then gets a treat for, he'd be spending time with you, occupied time so less focus on arguing, plus he gets the younger ones to enjoy what he's done. me & dd got a big cardboard box and made it into a car for ds, we painted it up like the mystery machine so they could both play with it as they both like scooby doo.

i'm probably talking b*lls , just a suggestion.

I agree again.
I have to spend one to one time with my difficult dd1. She has to practice her dancing at least 3-5times a week. I am the only one who can help her with it as daddy hasnt a clue if its right or not. She has competitions and trophies and medals at stake so she wants to win and therefore wants to practice. I find the one to one time beneficial, and sometimes irritating when she doesnt concentrate. But on the whole it gives me and her a link, something we both want to work at together, so is kind of nice and rewarding for us both when she does win a medal etc.

I have another one of these here ....

Dd is 7 ,8 in March,incredibly well behaved in school,she has been known to get upset because of naughty children in her class getting the whole class into trouble.She also is in all the top sets of her year.

She also has the obnoxious teenager attitude to almost everything,she does tell lies,but not on a grand scale just little fibs here and there,of no importance,although I do go through the consequences of lying thing with her.

Although she is generally good with her brother(3),she can very rarely be quite nasty to him,and if he gets told off she's in her element.Most of the time shes just incredibly bossy to him,which then causes bickering(he's learning to stand up for himself)

My main problem with her though,is that she has incredible trouble going to sleep,very much like tortoiseshells Ds.
I've taken her to our Gp,and shes been referred to a pyschotherapist but they and I all agree it's her attention seeking,and theres nothing physically or mentally wrong.
I've treid everything from laying on her bed with her to getting really angry to banning her from the computer(which she hates),nothing works.

I was expecting problems when she was a teenager but at 7 ?????????????

As the others have said children are comfortable at home and know they are loved and that love is unconditional, but they still want to see what they can get away with.
Also my mum had a theory that some children put so much effort into being good at school, that coming home they need to release a pressure valve.

Some clever children are the worst because they have the intelligents to manipulate situations and work out exactly which buttons to press, also there can be an arogance there because they know they are cleverer than most other people and think they can get away with things.

LTH - I may be wrong here and I do appreciate that having 4 children is very different than having 1 (which is what I have). It does however sound like you don't like your ds1 very much and I wonder if this has always been true?

I only ask this because I know I find my ds 'intensely' irritating a lot of the time and tbh always have. I also know that much of this is due to a mix of the Pnd I had when he was baby and our very similar natures.

I know as well that if I had more than one child I would quite happily use the excuse that I haven't got the time to spend 1 on 1 time with him because I would find it difficult and because the others don't get it etc.

However as I only have ds I don't have that excuse and I generally know that when things get very bad between us, I have to spend 'more' time with him not 'less' as I'd love to do. I have quite quickly learned that with ds our relationship really does improve if I focus on him in a positive way a bit more.

The fact that your ds behaves so well out of the home suggests that he has might have got himself into the role of 'the one who is trouble/hard work' in your family. This is something the whole family probably colludes with on an unconscious level. It is after all easier to say the problem is ALL his instead of his behavior being part of your family dynamic.

The fact is that your other children probaby know deep down that you like them generally (not just love them) and have less need for reassurance. Your ds1 may not have that knowledge.

If just spending some time with that is positive him is not possible or does not work (it may not if he or you are very angry/unhappy with each other) then I would tentatively suggest family therapy. This is a difficult route but if you truly want to change things this might help.

The other way is to continue blaming your ds1 and saying he is a 'bully' etc and focussing on how you can change him. I'm not sure that will be as productive in the long run though I can see who it is the 'easier' option.

Sympathies, LTH. Sounds to me like he craves one-to-one attention, It's the only thing that springs to mind when reading your posts.

Forgive me if I'm off the mark. It's interesting that he is fine when he's on his own. Perhaps with three other siblings he feels a bit pushed out and displays difficult behaviour to be noticed. Do you think he sensitive about the tension between you and him? Telling lies is one way of getting noticed. It guarantees that it will get your attention, not positive attention, but attention nonetheless.

Would it help to make him feel more like the 'senior' boy in the family? I don't mean putting loads of pressure on him. By that, I mean, give him special jobs to do and reward him for being responsible and caring. Obviously, he would have to accept that you also have to give individual attention to your other boys too.

Hope you're not offended by my post. I'm tryig to fathom out why he may be like this. It must be very difficult for you.

'that' it is - sorry my typing really is c*p