Inappropriate behaviour in 5 year old girl -bit long (sorry) - advice?

[NormaStanleyFletcher]

It is inappropriate "sexual" behaviour. Please don't read the rest if you will be upset (well I am upset by it but I hope you get what I mean)

A friend at work has a neighbour with two LOs. The father moved out a few months ago. The mother has always sounded somewhat .. erm... irresponsible, which came to a head when she walked out for three weeks leaving her kids with any family member who would take them, while she moved in with her latest bloke (there have been several). At which point the father moved back, cleaned up the house (apparently it was bad), deflead the pets (and the house), cleaned up the kids, spoke to the landlord and took over the tennancy.

The dad sounds like he is trying really hard to provide a better environment for the kids (he used to come back and take them to school after he moved out, because otherwise they wouldn't be taken most days ), and has costody now; she has access on condition that she no longer drinks infront of them etc.

Thing is the dad has said to my friend that the little girl is behaving inappropriately towards her brother, particularly being very very interested in his.. erm.. willy. My friend has witnessed some of that, but not the bit in the bath where she sucked her little brother's.... (sorry can't even type it)

I have said that to my friend that he should be contacting someone to get help for her, and I know that he will be mentioning it to his solicitor. But I feel really sad his DD. I mean that isn't normal is it?

Advice?

not normal no. Sounds like she has seen something she should not have seen.

not normal, no, BUT it may be that the dd has witnessed this happening at home, and is re-enacting, rather then actually been subjected to abuse?

oh dear

that goes way beyond normal and healthy curiosity about genitals. that is awful

would agree she might have seen something she should not have done

Good on you for being so concerned Norma.

It really doesn't sound normal to me. IMO interest in the genitals of the opposite sex is normal, but not to this extent.

I really don't know what to suggest to do though. Maybe Parentline for advice? Hope someone else can help.

That was my feeling too, seen rather than done. Very sad. Sounds like her Dad is taking better care of her at least.

Well the mum had admitted to my friend that when she had one of these men in her house she was so drunk that she couldn't remember having sex, but there were used condoms on the floor in the morning.

She shared a room with the kids

So I am hoping it is something she saw. But even that isn't good is it?

MMJ - I have boys and recognise that

My friend said it did seem more than the usual interest in difference (the little boy was complaining about the attention too)

i think there is a difference with a playful grab at a willy, or pointing and sniggering, and what the OP has alluded to

big difference that would suggest seeing something, either pornography or adults doing it, something that should not have been seen at aged 5

It certainly needs to be gently but firmly stopped for the sake of the little boy as much as anything. No need to make an immediate big deal out of it and frighten the girl or make her think she's bad, just 'don't do that to your brother, he doesn't like it' and a gentle explanation that willies, bottoms, fannies etc are private and we shouldn't touch or grab other people's and other people shold not touch or grab ours.

MMJ - I agree it may be innocent (I really hope that it is). Should it be looked into by someone else, do you think, or a watching brief?

I don't know the family at all. But my friend has been quite disturbed by it, and I wonder what advice to offer (so I thought I would ask you lot, get some really good advice, and pass it off as my own).

just wanted to add
my DD (5) regularly makes a grab for her brother's penis in the bath; he rightly objects, and she is stopped, but she would explore quite physically if allowed to - eg I can imagine her trying to pull/ push/ fold/ etc. It is not out of the question that she would put it in her mouth, just as she would his toes or nose or ear - to see what happens and to annoy him.

so by itself, I would not find that too alarming

but the rest of the background indicates that she may have been exposed to sexual behaviour, and certainly has not learned about private parts being private.

I think this is a difficult judgement call.

I'm hesitant to post because I don't have as much experience as other mothers on here and you obviously don't want to land the father in it (he's obviously trying to do a good job in a difficult situation) but I think a five-year old acting out oral sex is surely a bit of a "flag" in terms of identifying abuse.

I agree with you that the best thing would be to alert the professionals who could then make that judgement call. They are experienced in telling the difference between mimicking something and actual abuse (in the latter case I imagine there would be other signs). Better safe than sorry perhaps???

I think you should get professional advice.

It may be innocent, it may be something she has seen, but it needs taking care of, imo.

It's definitelya flag, if it happened at school the teachers would get involved. I would suggest getting Social Services involvement (mainly because they ahve access to the sort or help support this girl is likely to need) BUT see if you can get the dad to make the call- Although in reality is is possible he's the issue, the story would suggest mum was the big problem here, and as such dad wants to be athe forefront of getting help and therefore under less suspicion, iyswim?

I'd agree with peachy - get the dad to contact social services. They'd be able to give him advice and it looks better for him if he goes to them. BUt make sure he explains the situaiton with her mother.

I don't have any advice, just wanted to say that I had heard of a similar situation, which had to do with a friend's lo and a neighbour (the neighbour was a bit older and we could only conclude that he had been exposed to 'adult' things somehow). I don't think this type of thing is that uncommon, and although I think you are right to be concerned and looking for advice, I think more harm could be done by mishandling it. tread carefully.

Fletch...well, i am lost for words. Kind of. I had a neighbour who locked her kids in their bedroom while she had a different bloke round every night, making ALOT of noise with them. Eventually we heard the kids making sexual noises too, presumably copying, but that was disturbing enough.

I agree with other posters, it is likely to be something that has been seen rather than experienced (fingers x). Try to get the dad to speak to the social services about this, they can quite often discover where children are getting this sort of thing from without the child ever being aware.

Unfortunately it is all too often that parents don't pay enough attention to the children being around, I had a 'friend' I babysat for that used to bring home different men and the kids would go into the room in the morning , this friend was suffering badly from a break up and not really in control of herself (thankfully she is better now), it seems the children being in the fathers care is the best outcome, also if it was anything to do with the father I doubt that he would've told anyone she was exhibiting this behaviour.

Maybe your friend could try to help dad if he feels uncomfortable talking wit DD about this??? Sometimes fanjos are 'womens talk'.

Thanks for all your replies. I am going to show this thread to my friend.

Good of you to care NSF.

Dad sounds OK - obviously concerned if he spoke to your friend - needs to tell hos solicitor and involve SW