Ds's behaviour at nursery - HELP PLEASE

[Mog]

My ds (3) started at a playgroup 5 mornings a week recently. He's been hitting other children and it's got to the point where the staff are concerned for other children. the leader wants to bring in a behavioural specialist as she says he just laughs at the staff when they tell him off. this is ringing alarm bells for me. No doubt this would be on his records as he proceeds to 'big school'. Does anyone have any experience or advice about this. I get the impression we might be asked to leave if we don't agree to the specialist.
Ds is our third child and he hasn't behaved like this in other settings although I have seen him hit other children at times.

Why are playgroups, ect so quick to get the "experts" in?

Our DD had been going to playschool for 5 months and apart from a few tears when I dropped her off, I assumed all was fine. Then I am told DD had been crying and she wasn't joining in as much as they would expect after 5 months, and if it carried on they would get the Special Needs people in. We removed her immediately.

If you want the specialist, have it, but if you don't you need to have a meeting with them.

At nursery we have to take into consideration all children so if we have children who are hitting others - then for the sake of the others we need to look into it - Under no means do you need to see a specialist but it may help.

You say you have seen your child hit other children at times - why did he do it - is there a pattern, what are the repercussions - do you ask him to apologise etc.

Think about it the other way round would you want your DS to be hit by another child who was just let off everytime

I don't want to offend but it is hard working in a nursery and we do try and make sure that all children are treted well and are happy - there may be a reason your child acts out so why not see if we can help

My worry about a specialist is this will be on his records and will follow him to school. To me, hitting, while not pleasant and not acceptable behaviour, is normal and a developmental stage.
When he has hit before is perhaps in a playgroup setting and it doesn't seem to be triggered by anything. There aren't a lot of these instances though. He goes to another creche for one session and doesn't hit there (albeit a shorter session).

What's the probelm with it going to school?

mog, to be honest, I think repeated and uncontrollable hitting at age three isn't a developmental stage - it's a sign of frustration. How is his speech? Has he had his hearing tested?

Labels, they stick.

But how would being seen by a specialist lead to a detrimental label being applied?

IMHO - but why are the nursery not asking these questions. I'm not saying you're on the right track but no staff have suggested looking at frustration, or his environment.

If there is nothing amiss, that's what the specialist will say. Believe me they don't want to waste their scant recourses on children who just don't need it. So there would be no label stuck by the specialist unless a label needs to be stuck in order for your child to access the help required.

Because if he has any problems of any kind at school (and lets face it lots of kids do) teachers etc will see this in his past and might make judgements.

I understand your frustration - have you raised these questions with the nursery staff?

Nurseries are too often staffed with very VERY young women (girls really) who simply don't have the experience to trace challenging behavior to it's root, but if you ask them the questions yourself you might set a ball rolling in their heads.

What judgements, Mog? I genuinely cannot see your concern with this one - teachers are professional people who deal with specialists all the time! They aren't a bunch of vivky Pollards scraped out of the local bus shelter. It won't cause him any problems at school. Would you avoid taking him to the doctor with a cough in case they stopped him doing PE?

I think it is better your DS gets properly assessed, and help when (and if) he needs it.

He may not need any further support, and it may be a stage, but he cannot be allowed to carry on being aggressive on a regular basis, without the causes being investigated.

He may benefit from the measures a specialist may suggest eg: something as simple as a specific consistent approach, or a place to go when he feels stressed.

Try and see it as a positive move, and support the playgroup.

Unless you think they have got it all wrong, in which case you need to move him to another setting.

But if you think he is currently experiencing difficulties at the moment, I really think it is better for a child to be assessed and supported, than labelled a 'naughty boy' for years before anything is done to try and get to the root of why he is unsettled.

I know this from bitter experience.

If staff are concerned enough about your ds and his behaviour towards the other children in his class to raise this issue with you, I'd at least hear what the specialist has to say. They're trying to help and support your ds and his peers, not label him for life.
It's hard as a parent not to take these things personally ( I know from experience!) but teachers have the child's interests at heart.

I've been a school governor and I've seen it happening. A child might say, be mild bullying, and they go back through their records to nursery school and build a 'case'. Seen this happen on several occasions.

But it's not teachers that are dealing with this, it's NVQ level staff.

I suppose what I'm questioning is their level of creative thinking before calling in a specialist. It's only two weeks into term and he had 3 straight days last week of no hitting and excellent behaviour.

it sounds a bit like my ds(6) they bought the 'experts in' when he was about 4 and they are finding things to help him with.

tbh i'd rather have help for him. the label thing really doesn't bother me.

I know what you mean about hitting being a stage but I would have thought it was younger children rather than 3-year-olds doing it and if someone at DD's nursery was regularly hitting her, I would be quite concerned.

They may only want to bring in a specialist to help deal with him in that setting although do you not experience anything with him at home that you think it might help with?

I have worked in may settings over the years and I think that there is a trend of labelling children far to quickly.Over the years I have seen many different behaviours from children and Only a handful of these have caused me concern.

Ofsted are at the root of this recent upsurge
of calling in the specialists.

If this was my child I would want to know exactly what methods they have used at this setting and why they feel he needs this.

Your childs behaviour is quite common and certainly not abnormal,
in my experience children do this for many reasons,
Sometimes it is about frustration and/or boredom
Finding out about socialising , none of us were born with this already programmed and this is why we send our children to playgroup/nursery.

If this was one of our children we would closely observe him and intercept any of this behaviour and firmly tell him that it is unacceptable but we would look for the triggers to try and avoid it happening first.

Sorry if this long and a bit like a lecture.

do you know why ofsted are doing it iuaas

To be honest I dont know,the basic idea of observing children in your care is an important one.

But children with serious behavioural problems are very obvious when alongside their peers.

I think the theory is that the earlier these behaviours are realised the sooner they can be treated appropriatly.
The biggest problem is that ofsted gives out guidelines and they are then interpreted by all people working in settings and without the proper training and knowledge you have an over reaction to behaviour which is within the bounds of "normal" (sorry I hate that word.)

Nursery nurses are given to much responsibility we are being relied on under pressure to analise children too much.
Gone are the times when we provided young children with a simple setting to learn how to socialise and be away from mum.

we are expected to observe and record childrens progress in academics and behaviour and health.

southeast -how long before the experts were called if you don't mind me asking. Was your son exhibiting similar behaviour and what did they do?

firstly he was referred to a speech and language therapist. though he was 4 and in a school nursery (whether they were more experienced, not making assumptions as to the nursery staff btw!)

My DS was a hitter at nursery. He carried on being a hitter through primary and into juniors. Only now at 9 years old, and after much screaming and shouting from me, have the 'experts' been called in. It turns out he has aspergers syndrome. I wish someone had called in the experts for us when he was 3. It might have saved alot of heartache for everyone involved.

Im not in any way suggesting this is whats wrong with your ds - but if there is a problem - or if its something behavioural that they can help with - well why would you not want to know??