Ds's behaviour at nursery - HELP PLEASE

[Mog]

My ds (3) started at a playgroup 5 mornings a week recently. He's been hitting other children and it's got to the point where the staff are concerned for other children. the leader wants to bring in a behavioural specialist as she says he just laughs at the staff when they tell him off. this is ringing alarm bells for me. No doubt this would be on his records as he proceeds to 'big school'. Does anyone have any experience or advice about this. I get the impression we might be asked to leave if we don't agree to the specialist.
Ds is our third child and he hasn't behaved like this in other settings although I have seen him hit other children at times.

Hi Mog, kids can resort to agressive behaviour when they feel insecure. He has only just started nursery, a big change for him.

Find out what action the nursery take when he hits, at my sons nursery they take time out, not sure a telling off would work, probably adds to his insecurity, adults he doesnt know telling him off.

they were doing time out with lots of words so I suggested time out but without speaking to him - to be honest I was a bit surprised that they didn't know actions are better than words with an under 3. (ds turned three last week)

mog - the more words the more attention he is creating. What do they say to him, not a long lecture?

Yes, that's what I was concerned about so I asked them to reduce talking to him and just put him in time out. but isn't this basic stuff - wouldn't you expect a playgroup manager to know this.

Most of the staff are over 40 with their own children so it's not young girls.

Mog it does sound as if the staff are not doing a great job here. Not giving him time out with talking endlessly to him, and being troubled by him laughing at them if they tell him off.....hmm. They don't actually need to be 'telling him off' and expecting a contrite little boy in front of them. They just need to tell him, no hitting, then give him the time out.

I'm not convinced by their approach at all.

Firstly I'd ask for a meeting with the nursery leader and his keyworker, and make them spell out to you their strategies so far. Hopefully then you can agree on an approach from here before any 'experts' are called in. To be totally honest I can't see many behavioural experts (who do they even mean? Ed Psych?) being thrilled to be brought in for what sounds like an utterly normal 3 yr old who is basically being seen as a problem due to the staff not having enough strategies to deal with him.

I suppose you could suggest to them that THEY see the behavioural specialist to check out that they are using the right strategies

I do want to add though, don't be afraid if your ds does need extra help at some point. My ds is in year one and we're now accepting referrals to help him and nowadays in schools it really SHOULD be, and is with us, done purely to help the child, not to label them.

The 'expert' will probably be someone like pre-school advisory who is far from anywhere near able to make a diagnosis or give any sort of label. She might be able to make suggestions to the nursery (and their handling of him) that improve his behaviour. You could ask to meet her after her observation and explain that he doesn't do this in other settings so ask why she thinks it happens in this particular one.

Honoria - thank you for your insight. You clarified for me what I wasn't expressing very well.
I have to play this carefully though. If I don't play along to a certain extent he might be asked to leave.

It's my understanding that the behavioural specialist is from the special needs department of the county council. She did stress though that she didn't think he was special needs. She described the person as being like a supernanny. Doubt it's Jo Frost though .

Oh glad it helped mog

I agree, be diplomatic, but the bottom line is that he is a normal 3 yr old and shouldn't be beyond their capabilities. If he hasn't behaved like this in other settings it is bound to be their approach that's at fault I would say.

Are there other pre-schools in the area at all? We moved our ds because he didn't thrive at his first one, and it was the best thing we ever did. Sometimes it's just the place that's wrong......

Each council operates slightly differently- but the description you've given would locally be called pre-school advisory (or possibly behavioural support). They'll probably have a different name in your area. Either way they are not people who can diagnose in any shape or form. They can give the setting tips though.

If it's any comfort, my dd was refered to a speech therapist as a result of a diagnosis by nursery staff - who in my opinion - were full of self importance and little else. Anyway, turned up to the speech and language assessment and the long and short of it: the speech therapist asked why dd had been refered to her in the first place because there was nothing wrong with her speech. Dd's speech was age-developmentally appropriate. She wasn't surprised though. The speech therapist said that she'd seen a sharp increase in referals from nurseries/playgroup via health visitors. Maybe it's to cover themselves, especially if there are not confident of their own skills? I don't know. But the net effect was that dd was discharge after a 1.5 hour assessment with a speech therapist and I have an "official" piece of paper to prove that there was nothing wrong with her. I was annoyed at the time, but I waited until the term had finished and then I showed the nursery staff the letter from the speech therapist - and diplomatically, what I thought of their "diagnosing" skills. I took my dd out of the setting and she is now in another nursery and doing very well. I would allow your ds to be seen by these specialists - you can always ask for a second opinion if you don't agree with their diagnosis - and you may even be pleasantly surprised.