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Original poster

"Father Christmas is just a man dressed up"

36 replies

marialuisa · 05/10/2004 10:12

announced my 3.5y old a few days ago. Prodding has revealed that she's drawn her own conclusions about this (because if he were real he's be dead by now)and the halfway house of "the real one lives in greenland and the ones ine the shops are his helpers" isn't going to wash. DD is very big on "The Truth" and has been spreading "The Truth" round nursery which has led to some fall-out.

How do I stop her getting into a muddle about this? I've already been asked to tell DD she's wrong by another mother but TBH we don't want to. She's sussed this for herself, isn't remotely traumatised and we think we should just let it lie.

DH is hoping her deep and sincere belief in God will shortly disappear too....

OP posts:
miranda2 · 05/10/2004 10:19

since it IS the truth, and she's worked it out for herself, I wouldn't deliberately lie to her!
God is a bit different (being true...!!!).
I can see its awkward at nursery, but trying to get you to lie to your daughter deliberately is a bit off imo. You could maybe try telling her that other people like pretending santa exists and it can be a fun game - so don't talk about it not being real to other children? but if she is like i was as a kid she'll probably want to tell everyone what she knows anyway!

jampot · 05/10/2004 10:26

Santa's headstone

roisin · 05/10/2004 10:32

Oh crikey - what a 'mare! This is a really tricky one ML, because she is so young. This really can cause huge problems and conflict, as I'm sure you're aware.

I certainly wouldn't lie to her if I were you, but do you think she can take on board the idea that the myth of FC is very important to some families at Christmas, to make it all seem more magical and more exciting? And she must not say anything to anyone else?

We did go through this with ds1, who sussed it earlier than his peers, but he was a LOT older than your dd.

PS You can encourage your dh by telling him that ds1 declared himself to be an atheist very soon after sussing FC!

soapbox · 05/10/2004 10:36

My tow children aged 4 and 6 know that the father christmases they see around the place are just men dressed up, 'pretend ones'. However, they still fervantly believe in the 'real' father christmas.

I've never lied to mine - just always dropped into the conversation - well I think FC only brings stockings to those children who believe in him. So they believe

Can you get her thinking along similar lines?

Original poster
marialuisa · 05/10/2004 11:23

Thanks-I'm relieved you're not all telling me to lie to her! The situation with the other mother was horrendous as the silly woman tackled me with both girls present. I just stood there gaping and said "oh look, we can go in now".

I think I will try and tackle this from a "not upsetting other people angle", but I'm convinced that if push comes to shove DD will insist on "The Truth". Also a bit worried about the poor teachers getting drawn into this...

Roisin-DH has tried to dissuade her on the God front but she has an answer to everything at the moment! She has a habit of reciting little religious catch phrases, and when she announced "God is in my heart" DH countered "so, if i cut you open and take out your heart I could see God" to which she replied "no, because God's invisible". And then started prattling about her b'day party (which is still 6 months away).

OP posts:
secur · 05/10/2004 11:25

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secur · 05/10/2004 11:27

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soapbox · 05/10/2004 11:29

Secur - don't think that's possible - we're not with them every moment of the day and believe me play ground chatter constantly turns to Santa at this time of year.

My two regularly come home with some story of FC not being real several times in the run up to Christmas.

I just smile enigmatically and say, 'well we'll see who gets stockings on christmas morning won't we'...

I certainly would have no control over whether my DD or DS decided to tell teh world their views as to whether santa exists and in any case why would I want to constrain their freedom to express their views??

soapbox · 05/10/2004 11:30

I do agree though that the whole FC and tooth fairy thing is not a negative thing.

secur · 05/10/2004 11:32

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secur · 05/10/2004 11:33

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soapbox · 05/10/2004 11:40

Secur - I think they will in the family environment - but when the playground chatter starts, I think they are more likely to give their own views.

Bear in mind Marialuisa's child is only 3.5! My 4 year old certainly wouldn't be trustworthy with that kind of information

secur · 05/10/2004 11:47

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Original poster
marialuisa · 05/10/2004 12:05

Secur-I rather think you have misunderstood me. I have no probs with the whole FC thing (although I wouldn't have gone down the Tooth Fairy/Easter Bunny route) and have promoted it as most parents do. However this is something DD has figured out for herself (and given that there was some idiot dressed up as FC in our local shopping mall in September I can see why) and as she has reached this conclusion herself I don't feel very comfortable trying to tell her she's got it wrong. I did initially suggest that there might be a real FC who lives in Greenland but as DD pointed out if he's a man he'd be dead by now!

i realise my DD (and he way we interact with her) may sound a bit weird to some but she's the way she is. And actually Secur I'm not convinced that she can understand entirely about not upseting other people because she sees things in black and white, something is either True or not. The concept of "little white lies" doesn't develop until much later (I think about 6-8y IIR my piaget correctly).

I also don't think she'll miss out at all as I won't be suggesting she won't get presents and FWIW she enjoys buying presents, wrapping etc. for others. We weill still have advent calendars and midnight mass.

BTW I am one of those awful people who won't do the shoebox thing because I object to the attached proselytising (sp?) despie my own eep-rooted religious beliefs. You see-we're a bit weird!

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secur · 05/10/2004 12:21

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Original poster
marialuisa · 05/10/2004 12:38

Yes, DH is an avowed atheist but as i explained earlier she has swallowed her kiddy catechism and has an answer for all his points. Obviously you don't know my DD so it's hard for you to understand why fairies etc. aren't going to work, ultimately (despite her God thing) she's just not that credulous. The things you mention about sad people and hungry kids are things that we (dd and me but not DH for obvious reasons) ask God/Jesus/Mary to look into! As for the other things, TBH I grew up without all that so it wouldn't have occurred to me to do it anyway!

i think you and i differ about what we consider "white lies"-to me the thing with your DS and the chips is "teasing", everyone involved knows the real story whereas a "white lie" is deliberately misleading someone/agreeing with them (with the best intentions of course)to make them feel better/protect them in some way.

just wanted to make it clear that i'm not some callous mother who wants Xmas to be dull and expects a 3.5y old to deal with the harsh realities of everyday life.

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secur · 05/10/2004 12:49

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Original poster
marialuisa · 05/10/2004 13:03

Great ! Your Xmas sounds lovely BTW.

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secur · 05/10/2004 13:05

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miranda2 · 05/10/2004 13:14

I wouldn't count talking about FC in the first place as lying. What I was saying was that once a child knows it isn't true, to insist that it is true WOULD be lying, iyswim? That is, keep the fantasy going, but don't insist on it when it dies a natural death. I still love shop santas, stockings etc, but havent' believed in FC for ooh about 26 years! I don't think I ever actually believed in the tooth fairy - by the time your teeth start falling out you are already 5 or 6 and past that stage imo, but we still always put teeth under our pillow and loved our shiny 50p in the morning!

Tinker · 05/10/2004 13:17

I think children suss it out pretty early on really but wonder if they should say anything in case it jeopardises their present total. My daughter noticed about 3 or 4 years ago that the wrapping paper was the same as the one she had seen me buying

poppyseed · 05/10/2004 13:22

Haven't read all the posts in detail sorry - but wanted to tell you that we told DD that the FCs in all the grottos were men just dressed up as she was scared stiff of them. In some way, if she knew that they were just men dressed up she seemed to accept the situation a little better. To this day she has never sat on FC's knee in a grotto and really knows that FC is far too bust making all the toys with the elves at this time of year to be seen.
I must admit, not wanting to be a kill joy or anything but from a perv-alert point of view, we send out messages to our children not to speak to strangers in one breath and them say that it's OK to talk whilst sitting on the knee of an old bloke dressed in a red and white suit....double standards?? I am pleased that she is apprehensive about him to be honest!! Long may it continue.

secur · 05/10/2004 13:28

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ernest · 05/10/2004 13:32

why on earth is she thinking about fc in October??????

nyway, I wouldn't flog a dead horse prestending to her he does exist. You can mayb e say the ones she sees etc are to remember a holy man called St Nicholas who was very kind to children.

You obviously need to tread much more carefully with God.

In our house I believe, dh doessn't, that's not too bad, but when they do anything naughty & they say, "it wasn't me, it was the devil...." then things get a bit tricky!

secur · 05/10/2004 13:37

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