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Original poster

Awful behaviour again from DS1 this morning, and I don't know how best to deal with it.

51 replies

Pinkchampagne · 07/08/2007 10:16

He is nearly 8, and since I have lived alone with them, his behaviour has been spiralling out of control, and I am having trouble dealing with it.
This morning their bedroom was trashed with loads of clothes that they had pulled out, so I asked them both to tidy them away.
DS1 refused, and kept saying "Get me my clothes" (to get dressed)
I told him I wouldn't get his clothes out until he helped DS2 tidy the bedroom, but he just sat on the floor, pulled the duvet over his legs & kept repeating "Get my clothes"
I told again that I would get his clothes out as soon as he did as I asked & helped to tidy the room. He didn't help at all, but kept demanding his clothes.
DS2 was helping, so I praised him for it, telling him he was very helpful.
DS1 said "No he isn't he's stupid"

We were meant to go to the beach today, but I told DS1 that if he couldn't do as I asked he wouldn't go.
He started answering back, and still would not help DS2, so I have said he is not going to the beach.
He then started screaming "shut up" repeatedly, so I really feel I have to stick to my guns & not take him for a treat, but that will mean I can't take DS2, which isn't fair on him really.
I am getting so so run down with all this, and don't know the best way to deal with it all.
I am finding being a lone mother very very hard & I feel I am getting it all so wrong.

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Original poster
Pinkchampagne · 07/08/2007 12:37

That book sounds just what I need to read, Hunker!

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hunkermunker · 07/08/2007 12:38

It's excellent, truly.

Same people wrote it as How To Talk So Your Kids Will Listen and vice versa.

Really useful stuff and very readable. I recommend it highly.

tracyk · 07/08/2007 12:40

Maybe you can get him to 'earn' going to the beach. Tell him if he's calm and helps you do something - eg tidy the lounge/do the dishes or something and is good for an hour - THEN he can get to the beach. But warn him if he misbehaves at the beach you will put (a favourite toy of your choice) in the bin when you get home.

Thats what I do for ds - 'I'll count to 3 and if you haven't done x - then x goes in the bin' I don't get to 3 very often.

Peachy · 07/08/2007 12:41

Yes, but doesn't that set him up to fail?

I would ahve thought just taking him out somewhere with no earns or consequences would show his she cares and values being with him- rather than you need to earn my time

frazzledbutcalm · 07/08/2007 12:43

It's really hard. I wouldn't go 2 beach but you know how he's gonna kick off when you tell him that. You're doing all the right things, it just won't ever feel like it. Don't shout at him or let him see you've lost the plot (very easy to say but not to do, i know!). I'd like to say he'll learn that his brother gets treats because he's good and he can too if he's good, but my daughter hasn't learned that yet, at 8! I think she has really, but she just likes to test and be horrible all the same! I don't think your son has always been like this so stick to your guns and i think he will come round. Sounds like most of it is maybe just reaction to your split. Try having a chat about his feelings on life in general when he is having a good day, never after an outburst. Good luck.

hunkermunker · 07/08/2007 12:44

Agree with Peachy - he sounds like a little boy who needs to hear that he's loved, nurtured and special to PC - not someone who's a troublesome pest who needs punishing all the time or rewards/bribes/punishments held over him all the time.

tracyk · 07/08/2007 12:47

Surely its his choice Peachy - PC can choose something really easy so he won't fail.
If he gets to go out anywhere without making up for all the upset this morning - is that not the wrong signal?

hunkermunker · 07/08/2007 12:49

But he's stuck himself in this role of "bad kid", Tracyk - hard to get yourself out of that when you're eight.

So PC chooses something "easy", he still doesn't do it (and he may very well not), they don't go to the beach and it's confirmed for him again that he's the "bad kid".

And so the cycle continues.

Bink · 07/08/2007 12:49

Many sympathies ... it's also possible that he's testing himself as well as you: "just how badly can I behave/unreasonable can I be before I "feel" it", if you see what I mean. I've a feeling adults (not you!, just people generally) do that self-testing thing too sometimes.

Do you feel that you were sort of wrong-footed by having to threaten no beach? - would it have helped if you had (in a quiet moment) noted down a few ideas of sanctions (and on a sliding scale of mild to strong) to keep up your sleeve so that the on-the-spot sanction doesn't backfire on you (as this one could have done re ds2)?

When ds1 does calm down, how long does it take him to calm down? - what I am wondering is whether, in his own mental climate, going from wild-clothes-chucking to sensible tidying might be a time-consuming transition & something he almost can't do to order? So you might consider doing the "I am taking ds2 away and leaving you to settle down for 10 minutes and then when I come back we are all going to put this room to rights, then breakfast" routine. (Gives you breathing space too.) But I realise I don't know ds1 so ignore if no help!

tracyk · 07/08/2007 12:50

I see your point Hunker.

frazzledbutcalm · 07/08/2007 12:51

I tend to think he will rebel whatever the situation. If he's told he can have treat when he's helped with such and such, he'll kick off anyway because really he just wants love and understanding atm and he's feeling far too confused to think straight.

frazzledbutcalm · 07/08/2007 12:54

my dd just changes the boundaries of what she wants, will/won't do when i try to reason with her. She doesn't want to co-operate full stop and will just keep changing mind/actions. As soon as you sort out what she wants, she changes it. I think this will happen here just because he is so angry and confused. the beach/treats isn't really the issue.

Original poster
Pinkchampagne · 07/08/2007 13:13

I probably shouldn't have used the beach, it was just that I was packing for the beach when he started this morning, and I felt he shouldn't have then had a treat. I also gave him several warnings, and several opportunities to do as he was asked.
It's hard to know what to do for the best in these situations, and I am grateful of all advice because I know I'm not getting it right just now.

He has calmed now, had a talk, a drink & a babybel, and is now on his monkey swing in the garden!

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Peachy · 07/08/2007 13:16

You're right frazzle in that the beach isn't the isue, but cosistency may very well be the key to what it really is- as far as this lad is concerned all his world ahs been shaken apart; he needs to know where he stands.

DS1 has seperate issuesw of course, but i find he behaves much better when I expect him to be good- and plays up (for attnetion?) when I set rigourous systems of rewards and goals. In actuality i use both and combine them 9today he tideied up because he wanted to see a DVD, but apcked up the shopping with me because he was enjoying the praise and if he ahdn't helped there'd have been co come back)

Peachy · 07/08/2007 13:18

Pc You ARE getting it right- its hard to see it when youre in the kiddle, but you are

And I see no harm in using the beach- imo far better than removing a toy he's atatched to (back to that behave or you'll lose something you love and think you own scenario otherwise)

prettybird · 07/08/2007 13:51

It's difficult isn't it PinkChampagne.

I read the book "How to talk so children will listen and how to listen so children will talk" while I was on holiday, having seen it recommended so many times on here.

I found it really useful - and really need to re-read it again and properly go through the exercsies. Yu do need to read it all the way thourgh - interestingly, my dh didn't read all ofi, only the beginning and then saud "it deosn't work" - but fi you use all the techniques and thinking behind them, I've found it really works - and also given me some insights into my own character and how it was shaped by my upbringing.

In thi sparticualr case, there are a few things that I might have tried - maybe in combination.

One was to give ds1 a choice as to what/how he was going to tidy awa, eg are you going to clear the clothes that are on the floor first, or the ones on the bed. Or made a joke of it saying, which do you think will be faster, hopping or jumpign while you are putting them away.

I'd I have also said to him waht you were feeling, instead of just shouting at him about all the things he's not doing, eg, "I am getting very upset/upset/tired/angry that you are not helping me. ". Tell you what you are feeling truthfully. Say to him, "I am angry and so I don't feel like going out for a treat. I'd like your help to stop me feeling angry"

Instead of conituning the argument, I'd then just say one word, "Tidy!"

SOme of the techniques seems a wee bit strange and you are sure that they won't work, but I've found that for example, my ds (7 next month) loves being given the option of "hopping or jumping to bed", whereas it's normally a big fight.

Original poster
Pinkchampagne · 07/08/2007 18:13

I keep meaning to but that book, PB!
This afternoon has been quite nice. Ds has been much better, and we went for a walk into town, and then walked to my friend's to have a play & get DS2.
Think I have annoyed my mother again though!

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HonoriaGlossop · 07/08/2007 18:35

I agree that you're doing a fab job holding the fort while your boys get used to this period of adjustment. I think never forget just how major this is for them; of course it's major for you but losing a spouse is NOT the same as losing your 'together' family when you're 8. It's absolutely world shattering. I do NOT say that to make you feel bad, I know you know it; it's just that when you're in the thick of it maybe it's easier to forget just why your ds is kicking off to this extent.

I totally agree that he is making himself the 'bad' child - it's how he feels inside so it's how he behaves. I also agree that it's now when he is at his most unloveable that he most needs to know he's loved and is your special boy.

Any excuse to praise him, do that, and any excuse to defuse a situation with humour or silliness, I'd say do that big time; the 'how to talk' things sounds very worth investigating; sometimes they can be joked out of a situation, like with the tidying "I bet you can't put those toys away without using your hands" or something equally silly.

Also he will challenge you, like the stuff with the fridge; I think he's getting too old for time out and is realising that he can just refuse; just drop the 'I'm in charge' persona, stand next to him with your arm round his shoulders, and work it out as a team "hmm, I'm just doing so and so for dinner; what can you take that won't ruin your appetite?" He's old enough to take some responsibility and you can turn a negative into a positive for him.

Original poster
Pinkchampagne · 07/08/2007 18:38

Thank you all for the advice today. I am finding it really hard right now, and every bit of advice really helps.
DS1 is a lovely little boy underneath all this, he really is.

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Original poster
Pinkchampagne · 07/08/2007 18:44

Thank you HG, that is great advice!

I know this is all hard for him, and I expected a lot of this, but I am finding it harder than I could ever have imagined.

It is hard to know what to do for the best in these situations, but when he calmed down this afternoon, I had a chat with him, and I told him I loved him etc. He was so much better later this afternoon.
I know it is hard for the boys, and I really want to be a better mum for them.

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Peachy · 07/08/2007 18:44

Of course he is PC, he's just hurting a bit that's all.

FWIW I get annoyed at the fridge thinga s well- not through a sense of its mine, just because I plan the food for the week and am on a budget (and away from food shops) so its a real pain to go and find one of the ds's has been helping themselves without asking again.

Original poster
Pinkchampagne · 07/08/2007 18:47

It is not a sense of "it's mine" here, really, it was just a term of phrase. I am forever wiping their grubby prints from my fridge door!
It was just that I had told him no, as it was nearly lunch time.

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Peachy · 07/08/2007 18:50

yeah, thats what i fugured- and fair enough too

HonoriaGlossop · 07/08/2007 18:59

blimey pink, I think you sound a fantastic and very thoughtful mum - they could not have better.

I do know that the fridge stuff can be annoying and I have had the odd moment with ds when I am JUST about to serve a meal and suddenly he can't wait. But I think taking responsibility for this sort of thing can be a really good thing and really, anything that you can grab onto now to make your ds feel valued and that bit 'grown up' is probably a good thing, so rather than just saying no because a meal is coming up, use it as a chance to have a conversation with him which will make him realise that you are not just treating him as a child, but treating him as a person who has their own feelings and can be TRUSTED. x

Original poster
Pinkchampagne · 07/08/2007 20:08

Thanks for the advice. I know I am probably not handling things great atm, and I am struggling with it all quite a bit, which is why I came on here pleading for help!

We have had a much calmer afternoon & evening, so fingers crossed it continues, but I will try to take on board the great advice given to me today. Thank you.

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