I'm at a loss with my 8.5yr old dd.......any advice please?

[justgivemeoneminute]

My dd is driving me insane. She's 8.5yrs old and all she does is answer back, question everything, she's horrible to her younger sister (3), horrible to me, horrible to her Dad...and yesterday she even hit me on the forearm - not hard and didn't hurt but its the fact she did it which completely shocked me and made me very angry...so I put her on the stairs and smacked her on the leg. She hit me because she would not move out of the front doorway to allow her sister through so I asked her countless times to move, which she refused to so I grabbed her by the wrist to push her along and to retaliate she hit me.

I was so disgusted with her (this was as we came home from school) I sent her to the bathroom to run a bath, I then told her after her bath she was to stay in her room until her tea was ready, she came down for her tea and I then told her to return to her room until it was time to go to bed - it was then lights out at 7pm and she slept through the night....

This morning she's ok but already I can hear a disagreement going on downstairs between her and dh and I can hear dh telling her 'you always want the last word'.

I am absolutely fed up with her ruining my evenings - I'm tired enough by the evening and its really getting me down. Its the same old routine of having to diffuse disagreements between her and her sister and me having to tell her to mind what she says, cut the attitude etc etc. I've even banned tv (Tracy Beaker is a definite no-no) and don't have a problem banning other activities if it comes to it.

Any advice? Please?

I think, as parents, we also need to remember that children can't be well behaved 24/7 and that we all have bad days.

I know myself that I am a bit moody and get a bit narky at times. dh can vouch for this .

Do your dd's share a room? Perhaps you could let 3yo dd into her room in the mornings and your older dd has her own privacy in the afternoons?

I have a similar problem with my dd and my 3yo ds. I have this rule in place and it works quite well for us. It teaches ds that people need some time alone and dd that she is part of a family and that means she has to participate sometimes, but also gives her some down time in the afternoons when she is most tired and moody.

It doesn't always work with ds but I try to distract him with something else.

When I was a child (I'm now 39) smacking was the norm....I agree its not looked upon as normal now and as far as I'm aware it ISN'T against the law, at the moment. My Mum smacking me did me no harm at all - she was airing her authority and if she felt she had to smack me I probably deserved it. I know I learnt not to repeat whatever I'd been given the smack for. So it must have had some bearing at the time.

I grew up in a era when you did as your parents told you, schools were a lot stricter, teachers would smack us or hit us over the knuckles with a ruler. Schools, these days, IMO, are a lot slacker and are unable to discipline children as much as they used to.

My DD's do not share rooms - they are lucky - they have a room each. Each have their own space, the elder one has friends over after school including sleepovers. I do not follow her around with a broom handle - I'm an easy going Mum - I let her have her freedom - if she wants to go outside on her bike and pedal around with her mates I let her do it providing she doesn't go away from the front garden and out of my sight.

Having a child of almost 9 yrs old and a child just over 3yrs old is not easy - its a love/hate relationship that they have - and when they are at each other's throats, and I've just come in from work (today, for example) and my dh is at the end of his tether with them it all snow balls and we end up with a situation where I just want to walk back out the front door and disappear....

She's been a bit better this afternoon although she did try it on a couple of times - ie not doing as she was told and creating with her sister but I nipped it in the bud and told her to behave - I said no more and walked away. She's now eating her tea, with her sister, and all seems quite quiet at the moment. DH has just gone to work and I'm just going to make myself a cuppa and sit in the garden for ten minutes.

I've realised how important it is for me to chill out at times like this with kids...unless I'm calm I don't seem to be able to cope with them playing up. I walk away from what I'm doing at the time and take myself away for ten minutes or so..like sat here typing this - this is time out as far as I'm concerned - it clears my head a bit - ready to deal with the next incident!

Well, like it or not, smacking IS ILLEGAL now.

I don't think I can help you tbh if you think it's ok. Lack of respect (and I think you demonstrate this if you smack a 8.5yo) works both ways, I wouldn't listen to you either if you hit me.

I have a 10 year old ds who has become a little challenging in his behaviour, and sometimes I feel like my head is going to explode.

I suppose it is developmental, but dh and I worry that if not kept in check and constantly corrected, it could lead to bigger problems in his teenage years.

Consistency with house rules is vital and spending quality time with him, especially as he is getting older, keeping him well grounded and reminding him that we love him.

One minute we are arguing and wan't to kill each other, the next we are hugging each other to death.

WWW - Well I don't have a problem with smacking a child..never have and never will. They are my children and I will do what I choose to do. I never smack either of mine unless it is absolutely necessary and in the case of my dd hitting her mother I'd say it were necessary. I don't care if you disagree - yes it is down to respect and her hitting me initially is a sure sign of complete lack of respect for her mother. Me smacking her does not show lack of respect for her - it shows my authority and the fact that I will not tolerate her misbehaving in such a way.

Thank you TnOgu...we do have plenty of occasions when we spend quality one to one time with both the dd's. We also praise them when they are being good and have lots of cuddly moments on the sofa and tucked up in bed reading a book. I'm lucky - both my kids are well behaved most of the time, have good manners and compared to a lot of kids their age are very good.

But there are moments when the two of them are arguing, I'm tired, dh tired, lots of jobs to get done, one lashes out at the other, my head is full of kids screaming, crying, wanting my attention etc etc....and I snap...I put whichever child is to blame (that I've seen for myself) on the stairs and go away and count to ten myself.

It is really hard.

I only have the one child, I don't know how I would cope with two

We all just muddle through really, don't we?

I remember when I was 10 being an absolute nightmare [I think I remained that way, too] my parents were very good on reflection because they just gave as much unconditional love as possible, whilst probably going silently mad

We will get there in the end, we will be worn out and have a nervous twitch, but it will be worth it in the end.

I have an 8 year old too (& a 6 year old) & she`s starting to be a bit of a handful too. Weve just finished a huge scene where we ended up confiscating 6 of her toys. It was a complete nightmare & just escalated. Dh would smack her, but as a victim of smack happy parents myself I know that it doesnt work & what damage it does. I would never inflict that on a child. He knows my feelings on that & thankfully sticks to them. We wouldnt last long as a family if he didnt.
Our main problem is because dh will not stick to the rules on how to discipline the girls. I try to discipline them & dh takes the piss out of me in front of the girls then he wonders why they have no respect for him & wont do as he asks. What does he expect? I think because he doesnt see much of them he wants that time to be fun & doesnt want to be seen as the ogre disciplining them. Hopefully this recent episode will of opened his eyes a bit. Probably not though.

Well, I'm not surprised you have problems with your dd then with that attitude. And IT IS NOT UP TO YOU, it is ILLEGAL to smack, whether you like it or not.

And I can't believe you think it's ok and say things like "They are my children and I will do what I choose to do." wrt smacking, your poor dd.

Justgiveme, she didn't just HIT you; you grabbed her. She retailed physically; of course! I feel it's totally unfair on your dd for you to even mention that. You shouldn't have grabbed her; it was a fracas, it wasn't anything more.

I agree with WWW. No good coming on here for advice if you don't want it, and won't reassess in the light of what people say.

WWW said it all. Lack of respect goes both ways. Your dd is giving back what she gets.

You're the grown up here, it's up to you to change the atmosphere.

oh and I'm 39 too and was never smacked; it wasn't compulsory in the old days!

Agree to disagree then??!!! Can't all agree on everything. Yes there is some helpful advice looking back and some not so helpful, and some just downwright unsympathetic!!! We're all different parents - I do things the way I see fit - yes I CHOOSE WHAT TO DO...and yes I do have that right thank you WWW....

Fortunately for me I have two dd's who are well spoken, excellent manners, say please and thank you, don't swear, behave well at school, academically bright, laugh, play, have lots of lovely friends and a lovely solid happy home. Yes we had the incident that I refer to initially on this thread but we have got over it and forgotten about it. I see kids everyday who are rude, insulting, badly behaved, manner-less and tbh bloody awful. I don't think my kids are that bad and I personally feel I'm an excellent Mum and they have a lovely Dad.

I don't care what you say about smacking - I didn't say smacking was 'compulsory' in the 70's - far from it - smacking to me is the absolute last resort.

Are you all telling me you don't snap occasionally? If you don't then you are all extremely unique parents!!!

"her hitting me is a sure sign of lack of respect for her mother". And that comes for a reason....do you see what I mean? A child respects an adult who talks to them even when they are being pesky. She didn't respect you at that point because grabbing another person is not respectful.

Kids really, really do give back what they get. In that scenario it was instant and I think it's really, really unfair on your dd for you to focus on HER when she was simply reacting! You need to focus on YOU!

And no, before you say it I'm not a perfect parent but I feel my rights as a parent stop short of physical tussles with my child. It's as you say perhaps a case of agree to disagree and I think it's hard for people to be helpful and sympathetic on this issue as it's so emotive. You sound quite defensive and fixed on the smacking thing; you describe in your last post a wonderful family life; yet you started this thread as someone who was at a loss with her dd, and whose dd was 'driving her insane'.

I think those things make it worth reconsidering your position on the smacking; if only because she is getting older now and you need to arm yourself with other strategies more age appropriate; can't really smack a teenager, etc! Feeling as you felt when you originally posted makes it seem worth giving other approaches, that don't include smacking, a go, surely?

Best of luck whatever you decide. I personally think people are most successful in changing their kid's behaviour when they are ok with having an honest look at their own too. And I include myself in that. As I say I am not saying i'm perfect.

I'm not saying i agree with smacking but I just wanted to point out that it isn't actually completely illegal in England. The law says you can use 'mild' smacking but it is illegal to smack hard enough to leave a mark. That is why there was so much criticism when the law was bought into force because a lot of people feel it is unworkable.

All these people having a go about not smacking or grabbing your child when they are lolling about on the floor completely ignoring you and not moving out of the way have you ever had to deal with it yourselves? I must say i am in total agreement with justgivemeoneminute.
I had the same problem with my daughter this morning before school. She is being a complete nightmare.

I do think alot of it is due to tiredness but i put my 8.5yo dd to bed at 7 and she's usually still awake at 10. What can you do???

My dd is also a big fan of Tracey Beaker and i wonder if this is influencing her behaviour.

Well, kians, the reason people were saying those things is that justgiveme was posting as someone who was at a loss and being driven insane - so we posted with other approaches. Also it was easy to see (from an outsiders view) how justgiveme's physicality with her dd was having immediate negative results!

And I really, really resent the view that because people might manage not to smack or grab, that they have had it easy. i have avoided this due to bloody hard sweat and graft and thinking my way round things, and working really, really hard to stay calm, often in the face of extreme provocation. our day to day provocations are not likely to be much different - it's just that there are different ways of dealing with things.

Kiansmum, of course I've had to deal with it myself, I have a 9yo. And good posts HG, agree with you, you can't expect respect if you hit someone, I don't respect people who hit me.

Things like tracey beaker can affect behaviour in my view but it is home that has the greater effect than anything else; if your dd is always spoken to with kindness and respect while at the same time having clear and consistent boundaries for her behaviour, then tracey beaker won't have the power to have a really negative effect on her.

What's she up to when she is awake till then? Maybe going up at 7 is too early now? What's her bedtime routine like - maybe she could stay up till eight as a special concession to being more grown up now - the thing she would have to do is show how grown up she can be by agreeing to have the lights out by say 9pm....I suppose you've tried all the relaxing stuff like a bath and warm milk etc? Does she still get read to at night? I know some might think 8 is a bit old for this but I don't think so and it might help her relax a bit? oh and if she has a TV in her room I think it needs to go!

HG "hard sweat and graft and thinking my way round things, and working really, really hard to stay calm, often in the face of extreme provocation."
Absolutely agree with that.

JGMOM, are you a spy in our house, my dd1 is like this at the minute, she has just stood and argued with me because I want her to get dressed ready for going to ballet.

I am not in the mood for her today, god help me when she is 18 if she is this bad now