Kind and gentle ways to discourage/prevent pre-schooler aggression - any ideas?

[EBAB]

I'm fed up with ds (just three) kicking/hitting us when we say a reasonable "no", and with hitting his peers hard over toys/misunderstandings.

We're not really sure why ds is so quick to anger and aggression at the moment, though are trying to minimise any of the things we think could possibly be causing it. But how might we deal with ds's actual outbursts, in the moment, in ways that are compassionate, reasonable, and respectful to him and to us? We don't want to meet rage with rage, to withdraw love, to leave him in time-out to handle what are clearly BIG feelings (and which only transfers his aggression to damaging things instead of hurting people) - but we don't want to stay right with him only to be hit more, or for him to "get away with it".

We do lots of explaining (the rules are pretty clear, I think), understanding, talking about feelings, about using words not fists/feet, have tried encouraging punching cushions and cuddly toys instead of people, deep breaths, counting to 10 ... and we're still having days at a time with outbursts aplenty (though in fairness to ds, days at a time without, too).

So, what's left? Am I even being reasonable to expect this behaviour to be reduceable just yet, or is it yet another age thing which will pass? Anyone been there and come through with a gentle, relatively calm little boy?! (Please say yes!)

Thanks ever so much.

We had a big phase of this EBAB, at around the same age

Ds is now 4.3 and we very rarely have any hitting or anything now (still quite a lot of anger and shouting, though)

I would get yourself physically out of the way and say "No hitting" or "We don't hit" or similar. You could also talk about / demonstrate ways of showing you are angry without hurting, or maybe just naming the feelings for him might help - "you're angry. You're feeling really angry with Mummy because she wouldn't xyz."

Sounds like you are trying all the reasonable alternatives. I would keep it fairly low key but consistently show that it isn't allowed, and then wait for him to grow out of it...

Ah, thanks Franny. I was hoping you'd post.

Relieved to hear it's possibly/probably normal (I feel so responsible sometimes - nurture over nature and all that), and that we need to trust it'll pass. I'm sorely tempted to avoid playdates, or at least frequent/overly long ones, for now, as ds just doesn't seem developmentally able to handle the disappointments and frustrations in non-aggressive ways yet, although in fairness, he really can be so lovely sometimes ... lots of the time ... just not this afternoon/evening! (Hence my not-at-all obvious bias towards the negative this evening. )

Anyway, yes, thanks again. This too shall pass, this too shall pass, this too shall pass ...

EBAB

Yes I (we) found it quite upsetting too. As he got older it would be accompanied by bloodthirsty descriptions and threats like "I'm going to throw you in the bin!"

I think they are kicking (literally!) against very safe and trusted people here. The frustrations of being 3 are enormous, and they are beginning to realise the world is a complex and scary place. Taking out frustrations and anger on people who really love you and will not reject you is a fairly classic thing to do, and not restricted to 3 year olds

Ah and I think if playing with other children taxes him a lot then I would limit this, but not avoid it altogether. Are there certain times of day when he is more tired? You could keep the visits to times when he is more calm and rested perhaps, and as you say, keep them shorter for now.

Message withdrawn

Ah, Pruners and Franny, thanks. Pruners, I can empathise with the self-blame thing. Not a nice feeling, but hard to not reach that conclusion sometimes when they lash out and you think, "God, I'm his main influence."

Franny, your son sounds like he has secretly briefed my son! I'm really proud of ds's language and how well he can make himself understood ... and then you hear the words "I want to hit and bash you/friend and make you/them cry!" or "I don't want to live in this house anymore. I want to knock it down and live in the garden in a cardboard box!" (followed by storm-off and door slam) or "I don't want a daddy anymore!" come out of his mouth. We never talk to ds like that, and have never hit him. Blimey [sigh].

Anyway, really encouraging to hear your ds is through the worst of it, Franny. Pruners, hope yours continues to move on from this phase. Our turn next!

Thanks again for advice. Night. EBAB

OK, this morning, ds had a BIG temper outburst. I kept him at arm's length, clearly giving the message that hitting/hurting isn't allowed. I carried ds to our big bed, where I could sit with him, but not too close so as not to get further hit/kicked. Because he couldn't lash out at me, he instead reached for an ornament by our bed and smashed it.

I feel like we need a soft room where he can go when he's cross where no one can be can be hurt, and nothing damaged. Not very realistic. Any ideas on how to handle these moments whereby we're not having to choose between us getting hurt or things being damaged?

Is this normal?!

Oh dear.

Thanks.

When my DS is in an enormous rage he can't even hear what I'm saying over all the sreaming. I've found that only thing that works is to hold him on my lap, facing away from me, holding his arms and sometimes also gently holding his head on my shoulder if I think he's going to bite me. It's not particularly pleasant but he now knows that I'll hold him until he calms down and does make an effort to. It's only then that we can talk about why he's angry etc. We tried time out but he just trashed everything in sight.

I don't know if this is something you would consider. Good Luck.

Is there less that he could break in his room?

I take a very similar approach when ds is hitting in this way. I take him to his room and sit by the door so he can't get out (otherwise he will run out of the room and pick things up and throw them)

I sit facing him and let him rage basically. I say things like 'Mummy is here', 'I know you are angry', 'Whenever you want a cuddle I'm here'. 'Mummy loves you etc'. I also add 'you can't have xxx ' (whatever he is asking for - and he is usually asking for something I've said no to in this sort of scenario) but I can see that makes you angry and must be very frustrating'.

I have found the key for me is that I really try to empathise with his feelings and that the calmer I am the quicker he calms down.

Also I actually don't find the hitting that upsetting as I can really understand where those feelings come from (though of course I don't like it when it hurts). I often feel that way myself.

On more than one occasion ds (2.5 yrs old) has dusted himself off at the end of a rant and said ' I feel better now mummy' and usually we carry on (without giving him what the tantrum was ostensibly about)

Of course this is the ideal situation - There are also times when I say 'no hitting' and I don't have the energy or time for this approach, however the outcome of those times is usually worse with me shouting.

I do find hitting his peers over toys etc much harder to deal with actually as I actually feel this is very age-related normal behaviour and don't generally feel that a punishment is warranted (whoever is doing the hitting) but I am acutely aware that most other parents don't feel like this so will sometimes do things in public thatI wouldn't normally do at home.

The last time ds hit/pushed a child I went up to him and removed him from the situation. I said ' Look how upset xx is' (said child was crying and being hugged by their mother'). I continued in the same vein ' Can you see how xx is crying they are very upset as being hit/pushed can hurt'.

To my astonishment, ds volunteered to go and say sorry and give the child a kiss. I would not have asked this of him though. I would have just emphasised that what he did was not nice a bit more and left it at that. I take the same approach if ds is hit or bitten by another child.

Hi EBAB, I could have written your post myself! It's exhausting isn't it?

Last week DS was in such a rage and because he was blubbing and shouting at the same time,I couldn't understand what the problem was and was kept saying to him that I couldn't understand what was wrong and to calm down and tell me. Anyway, this made him worse and he started saying,'I don't want you to live here anymore', then he picked up my hairdryer from the bed and started battering it off the wardrobe shouting 'I want to hit you like this'. I was so shocked I started to cry, which made him cry more.
Anyway,turned out he was crying in the first place because he couldn't fit two bits of duplo together!!!

I spoke to my HV about it on fri and she said it was very common. She actually made me feel better by saying it's often worse in families that don't smack (like us) and those from very loving, tactile families. She said that kids who are frequently smacked and shown little physical love don't try to assert their independence by doing the same as their parents.

Not sure it's true, but she made me feel better anyway. No offence intended, but good to know we're not alone!

You know what homemamma I can understand why you were upset but I think hitting the wardrobe with the hairdrying and voicing his frustration shows how well your ds is beginning to handle his feelings. He is only 3 yet he know hitting someone is wrong and he is vocalising clearly how he feels. The fact that his rage is directed at you is normal.

As adults we often feel angry at those closest to us when something goes wrong even if it isn't their fault. It isn't rational and as adults we hopefully realise that and it passes without us actually expressing the inappropriate anger at someone who isn't responsible for it.

Your ds was frustrated and he got angry. You were the nearest outlet and he felt safe enough with you to express that anger but he has also begun to learn that hitting you is not on. I think for his age he is showing remarkable restraint.

Sorry I don't know he's 3 but I assume he is very young still

My ds is the same (just coming up for 3.5) He gets massively frustrated doing the smallest things and I have to remember that for him they are not the smallest things (like putting on your own shoes, putting duplo together etc) I try to say as calm as possible and have taught him to take deep breaths - occasionally he will do this but not always. At the moment, he is upset at nursery and hitting out as suddenly in a class with 'big' kids who are going to school in September. He has lost his place in the pecking order and is obviously feeling anxious, plus also doesn't really understand whether he is going to school or not. They are so muddled at this age I think. I have asked nursery to be more reassuring and more understanding with him as more discipline seems to produce more anger. So....probably not much help but I empathise.

Thanks,LC! He'll be 3 at Christmas.
I know it's better than hitting me, it's just hard to shake the guilt that I've helped him develop this way. i.e that I should have shown/taught him how to resolve things better.

But, yes, I know he's still very young. It seems almost like a rite of passage!

Lovely posts here, I am getting a lot from this thread

A LLL leader once said to me, when I spoke about ds' rages, "Well he can do that, because you allow him to. You aren't trying to forbid him to have angry feelings or teach him that he has to be well-behaved all the time, you are letting him have those feelings."

I wish I had her conviction that this was the case, but it was a good thing to hear at the time.

A big thank you for all the posts, ladies.

KTNoo - will give the holding approach another go. I wonder if it'll make ds more angry, but it's got to be worth a try.

lazycow - there's not so much breakable stuff, but certainly stuff that can do damage (wooden trains, books, cars) in most rooms, tbh. I am wondering, given ds's, er, "expressive" personality, about clearing out the box room and making it into an unbreakable, chill-out room. Hmm.

Empathy. Yes, that's really the answer, isn't it? Your son (lazy's) getting through his big feelings like that, I bet it was a magical moment. Ds has done that once or twice too, and I remember thinking, "It works!" And feeling so connected afterwards. But as you say, it's tough to be the empathic parent all/a lot of the time. It's exhausting, and not necessarily automatic.

lazy, I too find ds's aggression towards other children particularly tricky to deal with. All the parents we know expect, and take, a very hard line with aggression, with a firm telling-off and an instant apology expected, as a minimum. I was thinking about this last week, about how I never apologise immediately after an angry/irritable moment - grown-ups kind of go away, reflect, then come back and apologise, of our own volition. But we (or a lot of us) expect toddlers and pre-schoolers to say sorry instantly, rather than encourage them to feel remorse eventually. It seems ridiculous, really, to be expecting this of people with a fraction of our self-control and emotional development. And yet there's a pressure there to deliver it in social situations nonetheless. I don't particularly enjoy peer playdates at the moment for this and related reasons, and am going to minimise them for a while.

homemama and petit, thanks for the understanding and empathy. Among our circle of friends-with-kids, I do often feel alone in terms of ds's aggression, and it's a comfort to know that we're not.

Lovely quote, Franny.

Excuse late-night ramble. Just enjoying having some virtual kindred spirits.

Night. And thank you all again. EBAB

"Among our circle of friends-with-kids, I do often feel alone in terms of ds's aggression"

well that would fit in with what my LLL leader said. I am sure your approach allows your ds to express his difficult feelings, EBAB - much better than bottling it all up and letting it fester

hello there

I just wanted to post 'from the other side!' I did a nanny-share with a close friend and her little boy was very aggressive while our ds was very gentle. It put an enormous strain on our friendship and was very difficult for everyone involved. We managed to work through it and the reason I'm posting is in response to frannyandzooeys comment re feeling isolated within their circle of friends.
With hindsight, I so wish I had been able to be more supportive of my friend while she was dealing with her ds's behaviour but I was too focused on the effect on my ds so didn't see just how difficult it was for her. Playdates were generally disasters with our mums group and her ds in the end, in her words, was demonised. What we both agreed would have helped so much, but we just were not in the space to talk about it at the time, was a really open talk with the other mums from our cirlce of friends saying, 'we are finding this problem at home/in our nanny share and are finding it difficult to deal with and wondered if you had any ideas and/or need to know how we can handle it during playdates etc. Its a tough conversation but we all felt later had we had it a year earlier it could have saved a year of heartache all round.
I don't think I"m making much sense, I've just been the friend of a mum whose child is aggressive and talking it through honestly and openly changed and saved our relationship. I adore her and both her ds's and we are still very close but it could have so easily gone the other way with playdates becoming rare and contact diminishing etc etc
gosh I hope that has made some sense, there was an attempt at being helpful in there somewhere frannyandzooey!

sorry, meant to say helpful to EBAB! that would be bedtime for me then!

have now had a reasonable night's sleep and a chance to read over my rambling message which doesn't read quite how I intended it!
What I was trying to say in a rather clumsy way, was that other mum's may be a lot more understanding than you think they are going to be, even if their child is on the receiving end of aggression, if you broach the subject in an honest way and admit you are finding it tough and would love their help on managing play dates etc as you don't want you or your ds to miss out on their company and the many happy times that can tend to be forgotten in the one instant of aggression. We focused so heavily on my friend's ds's bad behaviuor that we often overlooked what a funny, energetic, fun and loving little man he was and I feel I missed a year of his precious little life because I couldnt' see beyond ONE aspect of his behaviour, instead of seeing the whole little person he was and working from there.
I'm sharing this because we as a group of friends learned so much from it, it was very hard and I would do things SO differently if I had my time over. I just don't want you and your ds to miss out on things because you feel you just can't quite face it, with a little help from your friends it might just feel very different...

Thanks, MelbourneMum. Appreciate your perspective. Am having a think about that ...

On a positive note, really, really trying to empathise with ds's big feelings over the past few days has had some great results. This morning, after some time spent holding and listening to ds (who was feeling pretty angry at the time), he said: "Ah, I'm not feeling angry anymore, Mummy - see? And I'm so, so sorry for breaking your [Lego] plane. I'll try to fix it."

I feel way better, because I can see ds working right through his feelings with support, and because I don't feel uncomfortable with how I'm handling it; it just feels right.

The physical aggression has noticeably lessened, too - replaced, no doubt due to my heightened listening, with more verbal expressiveness! Better in words, though. I suppose I am now wondering how much, at this stage, I try and steer ds's verbal anger towards "I feel angry about ..." and away from "I don't love you anymore! I want you to be sent away" - or if I just don't bother for the moment ... a later, self-control-related development?

Thank you all for your support on this thread.

MelbourneMum, am still pondering ...

I think you can model the "acceptable" form of speech for him - so when he says "I don't love you" you can say "Ah, you're feeling really angry with Mummy".

I think all the tactics you are using sound really effective and worthwhile. I wish I could remain as calm as you sound in the face of this type of aggression.

Hey MM, I agree - as in your situation - that if I was really close friends with another mum (whose child ds hits), and I shared similar-ish parenting styles, honesty would be the ideal re: handling ds's aggressive outbursts between us - particularly if ds's behaviour was threatening to undermine our friendship. But I think it could feel uncomfortable/be ineffective with mums I either don't know very well, or from whom I parent quite differently - with the latter including all the mums I know, really!

What do you think, lazycow? I know, like me, that you were finding social situations with other little ones - your child's aggression combined with others' expectations that you deal with it a certain way - particularly uncomfortable.

MM - I liked what you said about how this tricky stage of behaviour can overshadow all the positives about a child. So, for the record, ds is caring, curious, has a fantastic sense of humour and imagination, knows his own mind, is assertive, articulate, funny and, well, just lovely. Sigh.

Thanks, Firenze (like the name change ), for further tips. At my calmest, I think I'm managing what you suggest, but believe me I cannot manage this level of patience all the time. Had a kind of flat afternoon today, and could feel myself leaning back on the quick, yet ineffective, alternatives. Heigh-ho. How long did Firenze Junior's phase of this last? Was it about as intense? MIL seems to think ds is at the "extreme of normal", so am only ever so slightly worried ...

Anyone else find the intensity of this phase - and the intensity of dealing with it in full empathic fashion - sometimes enough to get you thinking you couldn't do this a second time around?! [slightly bewildered emoticon]

Thanks.