2 year old not talking

[Lightbright]

Hello, just wondered if anyone had any advice/similar experiences to share.

My 2.1 year old boy isn’t talking yet. Most people try to reassure me and say it’ll come in time, but I suppose I want to make sure I’m doing everything I can to help him.

The health visitor referred him for a hearing test at his 9 month check as he wasn’t babbling yet, but that checked out fine.

He picked up some words when he was 1, although this was limited, and he later lost some words he had learned e.g cat and ‘what’s that?’

I called my HV when he was 22 months as he still only said a few words (although his understanding is good). She referred us to a play based little talkers group to see if this gave him a boost. We have his 2 year check soon and she said if he hadn’t made any progress we could look at speech therapy.

He still only has a handful of words that he can say reliably: car, daddy, oh (no!), yes, oh dear, red, yellow, blue, green, cheese, egg, up, where’s daddy? He can also make a few animal noises, and mimic the sound of me counting to 10 and saying the alphabet. He likes songs and tries to join in, with ‘ooh’ sounds and ‘roar’. He can do some actions.

He doesn’t generally try to copy words, instead he often makes a ‘guh’ sound when trying to vocalise something. So for example, if I ask him what he would like to watch on TV, he’ll reply with ‘guh!’ and hold up a toy to indicate what he wants, like a car. When he wants to say a word, he sometimes just ‘borrows’ one from one he can say to convey that meaning, e.g instead of ‘tractor’ he’ll say ‘daddy’ - I think because he thinks this is close enough in sound. Instead of ‘star’ he’ll say ‘ssss’ followed by ‘car’.

He points to things, shows me things, and leads me round by my hand.

I had concerns about autism but I’ve done the M Chat test and it came out with a low risk score.

So, I just wondered, does this sound within the realms of ‘normal’ or should I try to proactively do more with/for him?

Grateful for any advice.

It's really good that you've done the m-Chat and he's had a hearing test. Have you had a look at Talking Point too? It's a great resource with progress checkers and things you can do to hep to improve his speech.

Honestly though, after having one with speech delay, I'd see if you can self-refer to SLT now. The waiting lists are usually quite long.

Thanks for the reply. Yes I’ve had a look at Talking Point, but will take another look at the resources.

I’ll look into the self-referral for SLT. Did you feel it was beneficial for your child?

Did you feel it was beneficial for your child?. Absolutely. Both have had it for different reasons and with each child it’s been an enjoyable and positive experience. I really would seek a referral sooner rather than later. The worst that can happen is that’s you get an assessment and he’s made a lot of progress and they decide he doesn’t need any SLT

My son was exactly the same. I knew something was up but no one would listen. At 2 we saw an NHS speech therapist when just told me to talk to him more.

Finally just before he was 3 I took him to a private speech therapist who very simply asked him to poke out his tongue, move it left to right, up and down and point it out. The poor boy had no muscle tone in his tongue at all and all the talking and stuff we had done before was useless. He has verbal dyspraxia which basically means the muscles haven’t strengthened. He just needed to build them up like any muscle. There’s no stopping him now!

I’m just sharing this as it’s a really quick simple test that I wish someone had told me about earlier and is easily fixed.

Of course this may not be the situation with your son at all but just thought I’d share just Incase.

If not then I would definitely recommend self referring to SALT.

Good luck and happy to answer any questions you have

Sorry - I meant you should definitely self refer to SALT. As someone suggested above there is no harm if there is no problem. Lots of kids have speech delays for lots of different reasons and they all get sorted. If you really do feel there is a problem don’t take no for an answer

Thank you @jiltedjohnsjulie, I’ll explore the self-referral. Lots of people have told me I’ve nothing to worry about, so I feel a bit like a neurotic FTM when I talk about SLT!

Thanks for sharing your experience @fishincarparks. Interesting to know about the situation with your boy. Good to know he’s a little chatterbox now! Out of interest, once the SLT had realised the issue, what kind of exercises did they do with him? I’m thinking there might be some form of physical issue at play with my son, as he can’t seem to manipulate his mouth in certain ways. He was born with a full tongue tie, though this was detected and snipped straight away. I’ve often wondered if there might be some residual issues from this. He struggled with weaning and swallow for a long time, and had a sensitive gag reflex too. Might be completely unrelated but the thought crossed my mind.

If you don’t mind me asking, was the private SLT expensive? And how many sessions did you have before you noticed a benefit?

Thanks again for sharing your insights.

He was born with a full tongue tie

I think my first step would be to check it's not reattached, preferably by a Tongue Tie Practioner,

Good point @jiltedjohnsjulie, I hadn’t thought of that possibility...

What about trying makaton? It will enable him to communicate in the mean time. It's a great aid to communication. My dd was pretty much non verbal when she started primary school and used it so that she didn't get frustrated. Now she's 11 and it's impossible to keep her quiet. Some kids do seem to develop a lot of language all of a sudden. Also when my dd was your sons age people used to try and reassure me that she'd "catch up" it used to drive me crazy I hated it because if I ever said "she might not" people would rush to reassure me and I didn't want to be reassured I would rather they had said "you guys will be fine no matter what". So no matter what happens, you guys will be fine.

Thank you for your reply, @mumunderthemoon. Makaton is a good idea, I’ve just looked up a Justin Fletcher video to learn the basics :) Glad to hear your daughter is doing well now. As well as Makaton, did you use any other strategies/SLT to help?

Thanks for understanding my concerns - I know when family/friends try to make reassuring comments it’s coming from a good place, but I can find it dismissive. My husband isn’t as concerned as I am, but he understands where I’m
coming from.

You’re right, he’ll be fine, no matter what.

Oddly enough I had just logged on to post exactly the same thread. My DS probably says about the same number of words (maybe a few less) and is two next week.
He is already under SALT for his eating and swallowing (which is shocking atm) so I’m going to ask for them to take him on for speech as well - no idea if they will allow that or whether I will need to go back to GP for a separate referral.
We went for a play date last week and I have to say I’ve cried multiple times a day about his speech since. I was in the ‘it’ll come when it comes’ camp however I now feel like I’ve been very naive and I’ve realised just how behind he is.

@FishInCarparks that’s interesting about verbal dyspraxia, I have dyspraxia running down my side of the family, I wonder if it is heriditary. I had never even considered dyspraxia as he’s never had any of the other physical signs.

It is important to speak while you sign with makaton. Makaton isn't intended to be a language just an aid to communication so while you sign speak normally and in full sentences.
We really just used makaton consistently with her and I think it all just clicked into place when she was ready. She still has issues with clear speech and finds phonics difficult (mixes up sounds in words and adds extra syllables etc) but she is also dyslexic and has other complex needs so this isn't completely unexpected.
If I were you I'd probably get a lot more forceful in advocating for his needs. The fact is that the NHS has millions of people to worry about while in this case your son is your sole focus. So go to your GP and ask for a SALT referral tell him about the tongue tie as well and ask for that to be looked at again. Ask if there is a local group that teaches makaton. I learned when I was 11 as my youngest brother needed it too. Consider specific concerns; low muscle tone might be one but that is also something that generally affects all muscles in the body so is he floppy, are his joints particularly bendy, are there issues with constipation, does he tire easily when walking etc? Developmental Verbal Dyspraxia could be a reason for his problems with speech, dyspraxia is a neurological issue when it affects speech there is no damage to the nerves and muscles but the brain and face can not coordinate the movements required for clear speech. Here's a link with more info dyspraxiafoundation.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Developmental-Verbal-Dyspraxia.pdf.
Also consider how you deal with your ds. Does he have to attempt clear communication to get his needs met? This isn't a criticism just as a parent we can get so accustomed to our children's ways that they don't need to talk or sign to get what they want. This can be difficult to begin with but don't give him anything unless he attempts to say the word or use the sign. Not all at once, over time. We started with "biscuit" it's a really easy sign (find it on YouTube) db and dd mastered this really quickly. Sit ds at the table/in a high chair, put a biscuit on the table (out of his reach) point to it and say "biscuit" and do the sign, move his hands to copy the sign and say "biscuit" make a big fuss and give him the biscuit. Repeat this a couple of times and then have him sign by himself, don't give him the biscuit until he attempts the sign, any attempt will do. If he doesn't like biscuits use another treat and sign "more".

@Lightbright he did a thing called Mr Tongue (google it and it comes up) a thing that also really worked was putting chocolate spread on a glue spatula (the ones we used for glue when we were at school) and the putting it at different angles of his mouth -roof of this mouth, to the left, right, spread on his lips. This really motivates them to work the muscles! Another thing is using straws to blow stuff (ping pong balls) as this works the lip muscles too.

Sadly the NHS salt didn’t nightlight this issue. We pay £45 per week for speech therapy, the changes were quick but he’s had to learn to talk from the age of 3 rather than as a baby. We’ve done a year and a half of weekly sessions so far and are hoping that come this summer he will no longer need help.

It’s a big financial commitment but it’s been totally worth it.

@RainRainGoAwayy things like dyslexia and dyspraxia can be hereditary (I have dyslexia) however my son does not have any signs of dyspraxia only verbal dyspraxia. This meant it only affects the muscles related to talking, swallowing etc, everything else is fine.

i have cried so many times, we make huge progress and then take a few steps back. Currently he’s developed a horrible stutter but I’ve been told that cause he only started to properly speak at 3 we should expect lots of things like this as his brain works just fine but his mouth can’t say the things his brain wants to.

As I said before you would never know with my son now (I can see it but I’m looking for it) he recently started swimming lessons and for the first time ever I didn’t pre warn them about his verbal dyspraxia and problems talking. They have no idea and he chats away. I spent the first swimming lessons crying in the corner with joy and looking like a total weirdo!

@rainraingoaway Hope you manage to get your referral to SLT asap. Sorry to hear you’re experiencing similar difficulties but know that you’re not alone! Feel free to PM me as we go down this path. Funnily enough, I went on a play date yesterday with an NCT friend I hadn’t seen for a year - I was amazed that I could hold a full conversation with her little boy. I didn’t even need my friend to ‘translate’. I know I shouldn’t compare but as my boy was virtually silent the whole time, I really noticed the difference. So I know how you feel.

I’ve been taking my boy to lots of different activities recently in an attempt to provide more varied and stimulating environments and making more effort with child-led play, but not much difference there. So I do suspect it’s something physical/neurological at play, but obviously I couldn’t be sure until he’s assessed.

@mumunderthemoon Thank you for your post, you’ve given me lots of food for thought. You’re right, I do need to take things forward and advocate for him. My instinct is that he needs an intervention for things to improve, but I guess I’ve been taking more of a wait and see approach because most people around me tell me not to worry so much.

I probably do give him what he wants quicker than I need to. I’m what you’d probably describe as an accidental attachment parent - I’ve always tried to anticipate his needs and give him what I feel he wants. Which isn’t always helpful, I appreciate. I’m going to take him to the GP next week.

In terms of the dyspraxia - he doesn’t generally exhibit the signs you’ve flagged. However, I’ve always felt he’s a bit ‘different’ which is why ASD crossed my mind - although he’s scoring as low risk on the m-chat test, he is a sensitive child - he gets overstimulated easily, has difficulties with transitions, and often in his own world. Anyway, I’ll mention these things to the GP.

@fishincarparks Thank you for sharing your experience - very useful to hear this, and great to hear your son is making progress with this support. You must’ve felt so proud at his swimming lesson.

I’m looking into private SLT now, at least for an initial assessment to see what they think.

Hi, little boy just turned 2, I feel me and you are in the same boat. DS just started copying but he doesn’t use the words again his understood words like mama bus and yeah and up. however DS has a poor understanding. We also like you suspect autism but he received a low/ medium risk on mchat. He’ll see chatterbox next week.

Strange thing is I’ve worked with autistic people and it’s so strange because they all have some similar traits but not all are the same. Some of the autistic traits you’ll see in normal people too.
Really concerning
I truly understand what your going through. And I don’t have much to share. But just taking the kids to new environments and trying to grab there attention and encouraging them to say simple words is what I had been advised. Also constant play and running around and just sharing there interest.
Hopefully it just gets the ball rolling. Hoping for the best for all our little ones.

Thanks for posting @hye123, sorry to hear you have similar concerns with your son. What’s chatterbox? Sorry, not heard of that before.

I’ve been trying for the past couple of months to really up the amount of active play, which he enjoys (mostly!) but hasn’t really made much difference to his speech so far - though I’ll continue my efforts. He’s quite TV obsessed, which I know is counterproductive to speech development, but I know I need to be stricter with screen time.

Chatterbox is an assessment which is done by a speech and language therapist. They observe a child and see how they play with toys and whether they babble and communicate or share interest like looking at you whilst playing etc, they’ll also ask questions and after the assessment. They then get the ball rolling and refer to a pediatrician and look at options.

Our chatterbox session is next week. We booked this session when he was around 20 months old.

Since 18 months we became extremely strict with tv. A complete shutdown. And it really did wonders. He became more social through eye contact. Responding to name and increased in baby babble.
Also got rid of the dummy and baby bottle as that also impacts speech delay.

Remember the difference. Speech and Langaugae isn’t exactly same. Speech can be the way he says sounds to communicate. Eg. wow ohhh ahh yay naaa and other baby language talk.
Language however is the way they formally talk in terms of how we can understand them.

DS goes play center regularly and the staff say he has good speech as in baby talk. But his Language is poor. Language impacts on understanding.

E.g I can use speech to express things, but if I speak a language another doesn’t speak how will they understand.

After the chatterbox session depending on the outcome. I may also look into private speech therapy in the London.

The confusion about this development is frustrating and how autism is keep coming across the mind can be upsetting. But we’ll just have to try our best to really fulfill our kids potential, regardless of whether they have an issue or not.

My son sounds similar, we had an NHS assessment by a speech therapist after I self referred. They say he is behind, but it's a spectrum and he is just on the one end of it for his age So they haven't offered us speech therapy and said I could call back in 3 months if he hadn't improved.

My son is 2 and a half. He started off on target with speech but somehow lost his way. He remains quiet during play dates etc too. His nursery didn't think he could speak at all, until he said a colour ( of a traffic light on a picture) when I asked him what it was at home-time.

I think some of it is he takes it all in, but unless he is really interested in it he doesn't want to talk about it. He says some very specific words but not common ones. So I have considered autism too but no other signs. Plus I anticipate his needs too much and the few hours he is at nursery a week he just goes with the flow.

I think before 3 years private speech therapy is probably the only way. Unfortunately I can not afford that, so I will try my best to help by reading up on things and keep pushing for NHS therapy.

Interestingly they did ask about eating, weaning issues etc so they prob considering the tongue / dyspraxia thing. Not been an issue for my boy though.

@snoringdoggo Your experience with your son’s NHS assessment sounds frustrating - I’m surprised that they didn’t refer him then to save you having to make yet another appointment. I guess they are trying to stop a backlog but I don’t think that’s very helpful for you and your son.

You’re right, I don’t think that they don’t tend to do much on the NHS until they’re 3 - but by that point there’s a risk that a child will have fallen really behind.

I went to this little talkers group again this week that we’ve been referred to - interestingly enough it’s all 2 year old boys. The early years worker told me they set this group up a couple of years ago to take the pressure off the local NHS speech therapy team. Although the session is nice, I’m not convinced it’ll do much to help as it’s mostly free play, which he does a lot of anyway.

Since starting this thread, I’ve made an appointment with a private speech therapist. I figure we can afford at least one session so that someone can look at him and give us an opinion on what they think may be the issue. I’ll post an update on here once we’ve had this.

@snoringdoggo sorry I just re-read my post and what I meant to say was that it must’ve been frustrating that your son wasn’t offered SLT (not a referral) since it was acknowledged that he has a delay.

I know what you meant Funny your group is all boys. It seems that in these modern times, officially no one will mention a difference between boys and girls in terms of development.

I guess it's a money thing not providing young children therapy. They might catch up and then there hasn't been an ongoing cost to the NHS. It does make me sad, because everything says early intervention is key. I know how we talk to them at home is part of it but I really try.

Yes boys most definitely differ from girls at this age. Have you read the book Raising Boys? While I don’t agree with all of the author’s points, he highlights differences between boys and girls, and how boys need a different parenting style as a result. He believes that boys aren’t ready for school until a year after girls are, so making them sit down and behave in a classroom setting can be difficult and stressful for them - I can believe that. Anyway, I digress slightly...

Yes, I agree, everyone agrees early intervention is key - but in reality accessing NHS services for therapy (of any description) seems to be difficult, unless there are multiple red flags that can’t be ignored. I guess we just need to continue advocating for them when we feel help is needed.

Let me know how you get on with things.

I've just downloaded the book, as DS has fallen asleep. 4pm Friday nap, hmmm oh well ?!

I will keep you posted, hope you can find a private SLT to help