People who don't smack- could I run something past you?

[SauerKraut]

I have a very strong-willed dd3 (last of 4). She is 5 and a half. She has a core of steel and nothing gets past her, which means she will not fall for any strategies or games I used with the others to deflect their attention from the fact that they weren't getting their own way. If she badly wants something, or to be allowed to do something, or doesn't do what I need her to do, and I refuse or suggest alternatives, I am met with a cold statement of her wishes, sticking out of tongue followed by threats ("I'll kick you, I'll just do it anyway), and either wild screaming or an attempt to carry out the threat. This happens almost every day, sometimes a few times a day, has to be experienced to be believed, and I am running out of ideas.
Now, my husband is a Presbyterian and believes in smacking. I don't, and am worried about her pushing me to the limit so often as my temper is quick.
What would you do?

Well you should never slap out of temper anyhow. I presume that time out and depriving her of treats for bad behaviour are not working.

What is she like at school, and what strategies do they use?

put her in her room/ignore

or

reward system

i find that with my dd who is nearly 6, the threat of privilages being taken away is usually enough to improve behaviour. and stick to it if they dont listen!!

Have you tried exclusion from the room? This often works. I try to use the "naughty step" routine and put ds1 on the bottom of the stairs and shut the hall door.

He hates this.

Also if she has a favourite toy to confiscate or no tv for the rest of the day is a good threat (as long as you follow it through).

My husband smacks him - but I must say that he doesn't do it very often and now the threat of it is usually enough.

Good luck. My 3 year old would try the patience of saint and nothing really seems to work either. I keep hoping that he will grow out of it (no sign yet).

I think you have to find the thing (toy/treat/whatever) that she really wants/bonds with/would miss and use that as the punishment. The threat to remove ds's trains is enough in this house.

I know that, which is why I'm asking.
Time out- is that separating her from everyone else?- well, she just comes straight out. She completely loses her temper and won't comply with anything. I hate to deprive her of treats as I know how difficult she finds it to control her temper, but have reluctantly done it as a last resort. But it seems like bribery to me.

Sorry, that was in reply to Carmenere- wasn't meant rudely- thank you all for replying, am reading!!

"i hate to deprive her of treats" you say

well its better than smacking, which you would hate even more

i put my dds in their room

She is perfect at Kindergarten, but then, she's only there four half days a week. No school yet.

Ah FGS you are rewarding her bad behaviour by giving her treats. It's not bribery, it's your job to help her to learn to control her temper. Ergo if she has a tantrum and still gets treats she will see no reason why she shouldn't. If you take away her treats when she tantrums she will learn to modify her behaviour so she will get more treats. It's not bribery in this case, it is a tool to teach her how to behave so that when she is not with you she will behave well and people will like her. If she behaves like a brat she will have very few friends.

When you put it like that....! I suppose I am spoiling her.

I hate to deprive her of treats - there lies the problem

My advice?

stay calm. If you get angry, she's already won.

Don't try to trick her/distract her. She is old enough now to be told straight what is and what is not acceptable, and to understand this.

Perhaps sit down as a family, with a big piece of paper and come up with House Rules. And with punishments for breaking them! - rules for you too!! eg, no shouting (or whatever!) so she is contributing. All sign it, stick it up in the kitchen.

Or make sure she knows what the rules are and get creative with punishments. You say she has a will of steel, I assume you mean that she doesn't care about the standard punishments (neither do my kids!). Does she have a hobby? A favourite activity? A treasured toy? Or something that she really really hates? Ds1 hated the sound of the hoover so we used to put it on as a punishment.

Reward system? earn points and lose points, according to behaviour.

And above all, don't get drawn into arguing with her.

It does sound lame when seen in black and white! Often it would be hard, because of the other three- treats are usually communal and not food.

There are alternatives to threats and punishments. Read 'How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk' by Faber and Mazlish.

Have you read the How to talk so kids will listen book? Long thread about it recently, will go and try and find a link.

I'm about half way through it at the moment and would thorougly recoomend it. I'm using the ideas already with amazing effect on my equally stubborn 3 yr old dd1.

It is a different way of dealing with conflict, instead of different approaches to punishment it helps the way you talk to your children to avoid conflict (or minimise it anyway). Really worth a read (despite being mildly cheesy American).

I am liking the house rules idea.

ha ha x-post prettycandles

Doh! It's sitting on my bookshelf. I used it for the other three. She puts her fingers in her ears! (and sticks her tongue out)

Ignore ignore and ignore some more works here. My dd is 6 and does things like this, we have bloodcurdling screaming, "I HATE YOU" and "I DON'T CARE" with accompanying folded arms and stamping feet.
I just put her in her bedroom and tell her I'm not talking to her until she talks to me properly.
If she tries to do something I've told her not to I stop her and put her back in her room as often as I need to, she gets fed up of it very quickly when I'm not responding to her.
I did screm at her once which worked but is not what I would normally do but she had just smacked me and it bloody hurt!
She was beyond shocked when I roared at her, but not an ideal way of doing it and would quickly lose it's effect I think.

I think at 5 and a half she's able to understand if you sit her down and talk with her. It can be frightening for a child to deal with strong emotions susch as anger and she could need help learning to deal with it and express her feelings in different ways. Give her a safe way to vent her anger perhaps? I don't do rewards or treat and we don't smack either. Dd is 5.5 so the same age as yours and she does respond well to this, it's the way we've brought her up and her brothers.

long thread about it here.

It's popularity with MNers made me go out and buy it. I'm not regretting it so far!