People who don't smack- could I run something past you?

[SauerKraut]

I have a very strong-willed dd3 (last of 4). She is 5 and a half. She has a core of steel and nothing gets past her, which means she will not fall for any strategies or games I used with the others to deflect their attention from the fact that they weren't getting their own way. If she badly wants something, or to be allowed to do something, or doesn't do what I need her to do, and I refuse or suggest alternatives, I am met with a cold statement of her wishes, sticking out of tongue followed by threats ("I'll kick you, I'll just do it anyway), and either wild screaming or an attempt to carry out the threat. This happens almost every day, sometimes a few times a day, has to be experienced to be believed, and I am running out of ideas.
Now, my husband is a Presbyterian and believes in smacking. I don't, and am worried about her pushing me to the limit so often as my temper is quick.
What would you do?

It seems it's not so uncommon at that age then. I thought she was old enough to be reasonable. No yardsticks here as kids are allowed to do what they want, almost without exception, so no tantrums.

You hate to deprive her of treats? Aw, love, that's how every parent feels. None of us do it with glee but you HAVE to. My mil has wonderful sayings, like

"They cry tears not blood" meaning it won't kill them and it's not the end of the world if they are upset!

and "You cry now or you cry later" meaning if you try to avoid the tough things to be happy (and keep them happy) in childhood, you will regret it. A lot.

A parent is not a mate to their child. You want them to be happy all the time, of course, it breaks your heart when they are upset - especially when you could have made them happy by giving them their own way. But it is not the right thing to do as you know. Fast forward 20 years, have you created a nice person or a selfish bitch?

Exactly, MTPW, at the moment I am creating a selfish madam. I want to create a nicer one with no smacking. We were always smacked for her kind of behaviour- I have no memories of other techniques, so thanks for all the ideas!

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Excellent! Treat vouchers- cool idea! I think I shall print out this thread.

If you are going to use time out and she is just not going to stay on the step, then try to sit with her in complete silence until she is ready to listen.

If she tries to walk away then hold on to her (sit her on your lap and restrain her arms or she will hit you) until she calms down and is ready to listen to you.

Nothing forceful just gently hold on and stay calm yourself (know that is the hard part here).

What my mother use to do to me was send me to my room and have to stay there until she said I could come out... she use to smack me too but I always hated been sent to my room!

My dd pushes it sometimes, but isn't at that stage yet as she's only 2.7, but the best advice I've been given is not to argue with them, you're the adult and it takes 2 people to argue. If you don't argue back, then who will they argue with? Stay calm, stay firm in your decisions and ride out the storm.

I like the "they cry tears not blood". It breaks my heart when dd's in the naughty place screaming her lungs out, but I've come to realise it's mostly temper and not sadness on her part.

Good luck.

My third is pretty much like this. I found logical consequences to be by far the most effective way with her. Also picking my battles wisely.

Once, she was in a paddy (she was 7!!) about not being allowed to travel in my sister's car with her favourite cousin, and refused to buckle up, and said she would rather die than not travel in her aunt's car.

We were still on private property, so after a few times of asking her to buckle up, her refusing (no point shouting or forcing as she'd only shout back and undo the belt again), I drove off in first gear (about 5mph) and suddenly slammed on the brakes. She slid right off her seat and bumped into mine. I said calmly: "And that is what happens if we have to stop suddenly and you are not wearing your belt- only WORSE!." She buckled up pretty quickly.

Logical consequences has always worked quite well with her. I recommend setting the boundaries, if necessary telling her in advance what the punishment will be for misdemeanours (cos you don't want to impasse her into major danger), and follow through. When she sees you as ultimate authority figure, you should have less trouble with her. Good luck...

Hmm. At 5 and a half, I would simply walk away and refuse to talk to DS if he was rude or objectionable or having a 'selfish madam' moment. I strong-willed child will generally pit themselves against any punishment, and selfish-madamism tends to thrive on attention. When DS was obnoxious I treated him like I would treat an adult who was like that - just walk away and ignore and withold any interest or attention. i.e, in a very low key unconcerned way say 'oh well if you're going to be like that I don't really want to play with you / talk to you / buy you anything at all. [shrug] sorry!'. And stick to it. It disconcerts them because they are used to a response or an escalation of the battle.

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Well, thank ye all very much. Since I was last here, I have successfully dealt with two major strops by the means of logical consequence (milk taken away, no bed time story) and a bit of ignoring. Should soon have a nicer child...

Aviatrix, thanks. I have really lost my way at the moment. I have already begun checking it out- am reading avidly and ignoring all 4! That was my feeling too- that time out and removal of priviledge aren't the only way- but can't seem to see further at the moment. Hopefully this book will help me to get to the root of the problem. Thank you all again.

i would look up supernanny and try naughty seat or rewards system.