Advice needed - I have a feeling something is not 'quite normal' with DS1 (7) - help please....

[abitworried]

I don't really know where to start with this one. We have DS1 (7.5) and DS2 (5).

DS1 has always seemed a 'challenging' and 'demanding' child - not naughty exactly, but exhausting, unrelenting and complex to understand in terms of moods swings etc.
We always assumed any issues we had with him were just normal parenting issues, but the older DS2 gets, and the more we see him developing in what seems a 'normal' way,the more 'different' DS1 seems.

What I need help and advice on is this:

• do people ever get dx for their children even if there isn't a serious issue e.g. at school etc - simply to try to understand and relate to them better?

I can't quite put my finger on what it is that worries me about DS1, but both DH and I frequently discuss the fact that something just doesn't seem 'quite right' - especially compared side by side with his peers.

Here are some of the things (good/ less good?) I'd observe about him. I'm hoping someone might give me some pointers about the type of issues/ condition etc he might have/ be on the spectrum for (even if mildly?)

+ve

• very bright/ academic across the board
• amazing memory
• highly 'scientific' brain - how things work etc
• computer game mad
• no issues particularly at school (I specifically asked his teacher) but a bit of a loner - few strong friendships
• can be babyish - silly voices etc (but that may just be because of DS2)

-ve
clumsy, unco-ordinated (is a bit in-toed, which doesn't help)

• never sits properly - likely to have his legs behind his head if on the sofa/ lies on the floor in what looks like weird contortions
• sometimes to seems to 'zone out' - is in a world of his own - almost as if he can't hear you. I suspect he has imaginary friends and 'projects himself' into fantasy stories etc
• prone to tantrums/ tears/ stropping off is he doesn't get his own way/can't do something
• fidgets incessantly - is always chewing the edge of his coat/ unpicking stitching/ examining things, tried to tie/ undo/ break etc any item within his grasp
• just seems unable to 'engage' with e.g watching sport/ team activities (but is good at drama and music)

We feel like we're finding it hard to relate to him these days, and that is worrying us. As I say though, we haven't had any reports of problems from school etc.

Does any of this sound cause for concern? What if anything, can I do?

Really, really hard to comment. I have no experience with this sort of thing, sorry; but have you taken DS1 to the docs and spoken about issues???

Could be something, could be nothing.

Ask for an appointment to see the SENCO at DS's school and discuss your worries with him/her. The SENCO should be able to say if she thinks any of these things are unusual.

If you are still worried, talk to your gp/hv but by the sound of ds, do it on the quiet to begin with, he may get upset if he knew you were doing this

My dd is 6 nearly 7. She is clumsy, has no interest in sports or teamwork activities, is very very shy, had imaginary friends (she now has a brother which helped), sits crossed legged, constantly has her sleeve in her mouth or is tugging at her hair or something. Does that sound familiar?

Each child is individual. Concentrate on your ds's good points and give him lots of praise. The fidgeting could be stress or nervousness or unease or just plain childish fidgetiness. I don't see anything in your description to cause concern. He could be very bright which might in turn lead to a few social problems, my dh's nephews have this, very very bright kids but they can't relate to other kids very well.

Watch the tugging at the hair thing, that can get excessive.

I'm by no means an expert and am only reponding to your feelings of concern rather than agreeing that there is necessarily a problem per se but if there were a problem it might point towards a slight autistic of asprgers tendency - the high IQ would bear this out to some extent but it could also merely be product of a high IQ - the relating to peers etc . If the school don't think there is an issue the social aspects may just be normal from a developmental point of view or not particularly off the scale. It is possible that he is gifted and therfore relates in his own way to what might seem to him to be a rather simplistic world he is currently experiencing. try the gifted and talented threads to find out more.
If you are concerned try talking to your GP or to the school nurse -there are ed psyches and you should be able to get an NHS referral I think -as I say I'm not an expert. frustration is a big thing with gifted children that would explain some behaviour - or possibly frustration with the issue of a new sibling could be the case. A professional will be able to tell you more.

A couple of things you have said remind me a little bit of my DD (8) who has dyspraxia, specifically the clumsy & lack of co-ordination, zoning out, babyish with silly voices (finally got rid of that one). As the others have said all children are very different, but if you are finding it hard to relate to him and it's worrying you (as it obviously is) then I think it wouldn't do any harm to have a quick word with the school's SENCO.

To be honest, a lot of that sounds like me - as a child and even now. Though I was more social. I was definately fairly highly strung and a complete fidget. I still twiddle things and pick away at things when talking to people. And am often in my own fantasy world.

I would get an opinion from your GP or something. I think it might just be the way he is. But if it's worrying you, then definately ask.

Thanks - I'd always assumed that the SENCO was really for children where there was an identified behavioural issue?

He only has 4 weeks left at his current school, and I don't know what (if anything) to say to his new school (he's going to a private prep in Sept).
I don't want to pre-empt anything, and in some ways it could be useful for some 'new' teachers to have a chance to observe him?

The SENCO should be able to help you with any concerns you've got such as these, they are the first port of call when a teacher flags up concern about a pupil. It was the SENCO who referred my DD on for assessment having observed her first in class. Ours have always been lovely and very approachable. But if he is going to change schools, maybe it is a good idea to wait and see how he settles in there before you say anything to anyone.

Some of the points you mention sound similar to my DS3 who has dyspaxia and aspergers.
I personally would not rely on the word of the SENCO-in my expererince they are not always good at picking up on AS. If you are really concerned have a word with your GP and ask for an assessment.

that should be "dyspraxia" and "experience"-sorry for typos!

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Message withdrawn

Thanks for these.

On one hand I don't want to go chasing a 'diagnosis' of something (with a SENCO or a health professional) unless there is a need/ benefit to DS.

However, on the other hand, as DH said to me this evening (after spending all day with DS and another friend and his dad, and coming back concerned) it would sort of help to be able to understand why he might be the way he is? Or to just be told - it's OK, he's actually typical/ 'normal'?

I think we keep beating ourselves up by thinking that we are failing him some way as parents, and 'causing' him to be like this .

Sounds a bit like me too when I was young! In terms of daydreaming, fantasy games etc that can be indicative of fantastic imagination (which itself is a byproduct of a high level of intelligence). Seems to me that he can concentrate, but only on the things he wants to. Intelligent children often do get easily bored, I did (I had a place at a G&T school as a 4 year old, but refused to go because my friend Rachel from playschool wasn't there ).

As for music and drama, they both require a great deal of creativity / imagination.

He just sounds like a really clever little boy to me who gets a bit frustrated when things aren't challenging or stimulating enough? As for the clumsiness - I'm really clumsy still!

abitworried and others. You may find others with similar concerns on this thread

I would trust your instincts then. If you feel that something is wrong, go with that and have a word with your GP. They can do a range of tests that will identify any problems. At least it will put your mind at ease, rather than waiting to see if new teachers will pick anything up.

You know your child is best so I would go with your instincts.

You might like to post on the "Special Needs" board. There are some very nice and helpful ladies there.

Some of the description rings true with our ds (now 9) who is potentially DCD/ Dyspraxic, but could equally apply to any number of "disorders" amny of which can be so mild in effect that, like in the case of our ds, a diagnosis would be fairly marginal or simply be a developmental immaturity which progresses with time. It can be useful in getting an explanation and some practical help to take it further though. You can ask your gp to refer to a community paediatrcian for assessment but it may take a while.

Thanks for these replies - it's very helpful.
I've looked at lots of the links to things like AS/ HFA and dyspraxia. Whilst some of it rings true, more often than not there seem to be key indicators which are absolutely not too, so I sort of feel that what LIZS has just suggested may be the most likely case.

I suspect he has AS/HFA traits, but a diagnosis would be fairly marginal at this stage. I think what might help us would be to try to find some help (via books/ people?) to make us think about our parenting style for a child like this, because I don't think we are coping very well at the moment. DH, in particular, gets very frustrated and angry, which I suspect has something to do with him not being the 'eldest son' he expects ( I know, but I don't know how to help DH tackle that one - whenever I try to broach the subject he's in denial that it is what he thinks...)

Can anyone recommend any useful reading as a starting point for us?

Madeleine Portwood has published a rather weighty volume, Devlopmental Dyspraxia.

As others have said , could be nothing, could be mild aspergers /spectrum disorder. my best mate's son sounds identical,if a little more troubled at school. they have had him refered and have had initial consultation. his dad is identical to him, kind of odd but lovely and so bright, and is a nuclear physicist. i do wonder how helpful it is to label eccentric behaviour, esp. if it isnt getting in the way of learning. these are the people who helped us come out of the caves! but i understand its worrying as a parent.

I think he sounds like a lovely normal very bright child. In fact he sounds just like my ds (6.5). I am concerned though by the items that you list as negatives about his behavior. Not sitting "properly" and being clumsy are hardly negatives. And not being interested in sport/team activities is a personality trait that really shouldn't be termed a negative one. (I was thrilled when after a field trip to a baseball game my ds begged me never to make him go to another boring game like that). And I think it's odd that you don't know if he has imaginary friends. Have you asked him or tried to talk to him about his special world? My ds zones out all the time...and when I ask him he tells me the most wonderful and fantastic stories. He goes to his own world which has a volcano filled with chocolate that is 3 times as high as Mount Everest and he has a robot that pays attention in class for him and does all the boring bits except for a couple of weeks when the robot fell into the volcano and drowned and he had to do everything himself. He was very dismayed. And when he's bored he "watches" tv in his mind or on a wall. My ds chews on the edges of his clothes and fiddles with all sorts of things...this is what he does when he's daydreaming or thinking. He almost always comes up with a really intelligent thought provoking comment or question after he's been fiddling for awhile. It's possible that the tantrums are more because he is frustrated that he isn't communicating with you than because he's trying to be naughty. My father has a similar personality and he's a famous scientist....so I suspect there's a great future there for your ds.

SofiaAmes - thank you, that is a helpful post. Yes, I think you're right to question what I loosely termed as -ves. While I don't worry about them individually, when it's all 'packaged together' I worry that it will cause problems for him as he gets older, e.g. being bullied for being a geek, getting into trouble with teachers who may not understand his excessive fidgeting, not appearing to listen etc.

That said, I think I worry less about it than DH does, and I think that may be the issue to address - DH's attitude. DH had quite a strict and 'proper' upbringing and education, and I suspect certain things have been 'socilaised' into him as just 'the done thing'

Oh dear ABW,
Bloody DHs, eh? Mine sounds vvv similar to yours. He was such a well-behaved high-achiever at school, part of the choir, orchestra, sports teams -- and we have one boy with Asperger's and another who (without any diagnosis) is your boy's imaginative, distracted, melodramatic, fidgety twin.

DH finds them both hard work and disappointing -- as you say, not the sons he expected. He was actually close to tears last week, saying 'What did I do to deserve kids like this?' (erm, the obvious!) as everyone else's bright-eyed, well-behaved children went through their musical performance, whilst one of ours twizzled round absent-mindedly in circles on stage, pausing to scowl fiercely at the audience, and the other left the hall altogether as he couldn't cope with the noise.

I think because I see them all the time, this sort of thing is less of a shock and disappointment! Could there be some of that with you and your DH? Incidentally, does he tell you that 'you shouldn't LET him behave that way', as if you actively encourage fidgeting/daydreaming/sprawling with one foot hooked round chair back?
Love them all really ...