My 2 year old doesn't play anymore

[happy1]

My ds has gone from playing happily by himself for hours to just sitting or lying down with his blanket. If he does ever play with something it's always the same toy tractor. He would be quite happy to sit on the sofa with me all day. He follows me from room to room and just lies down next to me whatever I'm doing. He gets plenty of sleep at night and a nap during the day, but he just seems so tired. I asked the HV whether he could be anaemic, but we discussed what he eats and she said he is getting plenty of iron. I just feel his behavior isn't normal. Any suggestions?

Will he play if you play with him? Perhaps it's more important to him to be with you, rather than to play, and he's bored of playing by himself?

Sometimes he'll show an interest in toys if I sit and play with him, but he usually then just wonders off and I'm sat there playing on my own! I'm sure he does just want to be with me, especially as dd is 6 months and takes alot of my time. I do have time with just him on his own, and he doesn't complain when I'm feeding dd, he's very good in that way, although he is a bit jealous as I've seen him taking her toys and putting them away, and poking her when he thinks I'm not looking.

If you think the problem is tiredness despite getting enough sleep I would be tempted to bypass the HV and take him to see the GP. If nothing else it would put your mind at rest.

We are waiting for an appointment for him to see the peadiatrician at the hospital, as his stools are runny and smell foul, have done for 8 months now. And not surprisingly, he hasn't put on any weight for the last 5 months. I've been waiting 2 months so far for an appointment.

What does he do with the toy tractor? Are there any other toys he likes (even if he'll only play with it with you). When he was playing before he stopped what sort of toys did he like?

How's his language development?

How long has this been going on for? Could be jealousy as you say, or insecurity, or illness. Sounds worrying, but paediatrician will suss it out im sure, just worrying in the meantime i know.

If his stools are foul smelling and he is not putting on any weight, he obviously isn't thriving and maybe the lying down with his blanket means he lacks energy due to something in his diet? I am allergic to gluten (coeliac disease) so would suggest a food diary. Surprised your HV hasn't suggested this. Could you see somebody privately as waiting for 2 months and you still don't have an appt is appalling. I have a 23mth old DD and she will only sit down/keep still if I am reading to her or showing her something of interest.
Out of interest, what is a typical day of food for him?

PS. If I were to eat gluten, I would feel incredibly tired and I would "puff up", that's the only way I can describe it. Coeliacs either get constipated or diarhea (sp?) from eating gluten which they obviously must avoid.
If they do eat gluten and it passes too quickly through the body, the nutrients from the food they eat are not absorbed and they do not thrive. It was discovered after the second world war by a Dr Coeliac in Belgium who noticed the children were poorly before the war, thrived during and became poorly when the war ended after the Americans dropped food parcels which were full of flour for bread. (DH heard this on Radio 4).
Shall read this thread tomorrow after a day at the office to see what a typical day's food is. Maybe you could do the last two days?
If you think the above is of interest you could contact the Coeliac Society in High Wycombe (don't have phone no. to hand) and they will advise you. A simple blood test will diagnose your DS.
HTH.

Hi Happy1
My Dd (4), is currently under the paed as she was also suffering from lethargy.
So far a blood test has shown that her iron reserves were slightly low, but not too much, and her liver enzymes were up, but again not too much.

The fact that her liver enxymes are up suggests an infection of some sort, and they are now thinking that she may have had an infection around xmas time which hasn't completly cleared up. They did mention a particular virus (very long name can't remember it), and are going to test specifically for that.
They seem to think she may have Post viral fatigue syndrome, which is apparently uncommen in children, but can happen.
I also asked about coeliacs, but it was dimissed straight away. The doc said she would of been born with it and had symptoms before now.
I don't agree with that as several things i've read suggest that it can develop at any age.

Dd is going back to the hospital next tuesday, so we'll see what they come up with then.

Dd is going back to the hospital next tuesday, so we'll see what they say then.
She is still quite lethargic. She seems to just suddenly flop and have no energy at all.

Good luck with your Ds, hope you manage to get it sorted soon.

Coeliac UK's number is 01494 437278.

He is going to be tested for coeliacs disease, my younger sister has it so it is a possibility. I suppose I'm just fed up with waiting. 2 months is a long time to wait for a childs appointment isn't it? Do you think I should phone them and check they haven't forgotten him?
Thank you all for your posts

Sorry, I forgot to say what food he eats!
He starts off with a bowl of cereal, usually weetabix or rice crispies, for lunch he will have either a cheese sandwich with some hotdog sausages on the side, a yoghurt and some fruit, or toast, or beans on toast, and for dinner he has the same as me and dp, which is usually pasta, pizza, shepherds pie, steak and pots etc. He also has fruit, raisons or breadsticks as snacks, and he loves his veg at dinnertime too. he has the odd packet of crisps or chocolate buttons in the week aswell.

Happy, I think you should hassle your GP to hassle the hospital, or hassle them direct. 2 months is a VERY long time to wait for a child who is not 'thriving', and if his behaviour has now changed, I think this is reason enough for them to hurry up with an appointment. Tell your GP he is not playing and just lying on the sofa - there must be something making the pooor mite feel so poorly.
Good Luck

I am so pissed off, I rang the hospital and they hadn't recieved ds's referral!! So I then chased up after it and it's being sent to them. So now I've got to start waiting all over again.

That's disgraceful. Was it your GP's fault?

Make a big fuss with your GP and say it's now urgent as DS is in such a state.

happy - there was some indication on your other thread recently that your GP is not exactly speedy about things - what's happening about that, by the way, and do you think it will be worth changing practices, if you can?

Hi Happy1. Read your postings and it strikes me that your son has gluten at all three meals. Would you consider omitting it for a week completely to see if there is a change? Sainsburys do a "free from" range inc GF pasta and fish fingers and so it is do-able. They also do gluten free rusks which are delicious. If you would consider this I can do some menu planning if that would help...? I hate to think of your son not thriving. Do you have a Waitrose or a Sainsburys near you?

Nutcracker, disagree with your doc as I developed coeliac disease at about the age of 15. Before that I could eat anything.

?

Blu - it wasn't the GP's fault, he sent the referral to one hospital, who decided they would pass it on to another. Only they never did. So it's their fault. I am taking my dd for her jabs today, so I'll talk to my health visitor and tell her he's getting worse. Youre right about my drs, they are not speedy about anything at all. I've got an appointment next week for my problem, I'm going to demand a blood test, and beg for a scan, cos thats what will put my mind at rest. The next practice is a long way away, so I'm going to have to stick with these for now.
Nutcracker - thank you for your post, I'm sorry your dd is not well either. Your doctor doesn't know much about coeliacs does he?
ChicPea, yes I do have a Sainsbury's near me, it might be worth giving it a go. It won't do him any harm would it? I would be very grateful for your help, thank you

Hi Happy1, Typical day for my DD 23mths:

Breakfast - 8am
1 cup of full fat milk
1 Farley's gluten free low sugar rusk
1 kiwi fruit
half banana
some melon

lunch - 12 noon
2 slices of cheese (sometimes with ham) on toast toast using Antoinette Savill's gluten free bread bought from Waitrose
Stewed apples with raisins & cinnamon, fromage frais
water to drink

supper - 5pm
pan fried wild salmon
steamed broccoli & cauliflower mixed with humous or pesto
(she doesn't like mash or roast potatoes but if she did I would offer them)
1 Slice of Sainsbury's "free from" gluten fruit cake slice OR 1/4 Antoinette Savills' double chocolate muffin
water to drink

Supper ideas
*Gluten free fish fingers x3 from Sainsburys, steamed veg with Pesto or gluten free pasta shells
*Pasta with Pesto sauce mixed with broccoli, cauli, sugar snaps, mini corn, mini carrots
*2 Waitrose gluten free sausages (I love these), mashed potato, peas

• Spaghetti Bolognaise with G/free pasta shells
• Pasta with carbonara sauce & ham
• Pasta with any sauce you choose but not with flour
• Shepherds Pie - see Anabel Karmel
• Homemade beefburgers/chicken burgers/fish cakes from Anabel Karmel's book + veg, potatoes
• Cauliflower cheese - sauce made with gluten free flour from Sains or Waitrose
• M & S do some delicious salmon & pancetta fish cakes which are gluten free - I know from the ingredient listing and not because it says Gluten Free Plenty of steamed veg with the above with dollop of humous or Pesto

Lunch ideas
Scrambled eggs on toast
Baked Beans on toast? (hate these)
Baked potato with cheese and ham filling
Any of the cooked ideas for supper if you feel like cooking

Snacks
Individual boxes of Sun Maid Raisins
Rice cakes
Sainsburys gluten free crackers
Any dried fruit
Kallo g/free bread sticks (Sains)

This won't do your DS any harm as long as he is having a balanced diet of protein, carb and fat. I feel my DD has a balanced diet, she is an energetic little thing, doesn't keep still, runs about, and is very happy.

RE: your current breakfast, you could offer cereal: Peter Rabbit gluten free corn flakes, puffed rice, not sure what else amongst the cereals but not Weetabix)
RE: your current lunch - Waitrose and M & S do Frankfurters which are gluten free
RE: supper - you are already doing shepherd's pie, steak and pots. If you want to continue with pasta, then it can be gluten free and you can in fact buy gluten free pizza from sainsburys.

I am not a dietician and if you try the above you need to be comfortable with it yourself. I follow a gluten free diet and my friends are curious to try certain things and are so surprised that it all practically tastes the same.

HTH

Waiting such a length of time is disgraceful happy1, and I would complain. My Dd had to wait a month for a blood test, and I wasn't happy about it at all.

When i suggested coeliacs to the doc at the hospital she just sort of smirked at me and made me feel stupid. For the rest of the consultation she didn't mention it at all, so i mentioned it again, which was when she said she couldn't have it as she was to old to just suddenly develop it.
She said what symptoms of it do you think she has, and of course my mind went blank as I could tell she was going to dismiss it whatever I said.

My Dd doesn't really have runny stools or constipation but she does frequently complain of stomach and is always tired, with sudden slumps of energy.
Oh and i read that a symptom is anemia which Dd has or did have then.

What are the other symptoms ???

Sorry Happy1, didn't mean to hijack your thread.

Hi Nutty! Start of hijack>Did somebody slap you (re: earlier thread - broody) and are you pg?>End hijack.!!

Coeliacs can have a terrible skin complaint called Dermo...wotsit where it looks like severe acne (can get info/pix from Coeliac Society). This is very painful, unsightly and causes severe embarrassment for the sufferer. I was in a pub (I hate pubs!) with DH who ordered a beer and said to the barman "Which one do you recommend?" and the barman (with the rosy red acne looking face) replied "I am allergic to gluten so I don't drink beer" and we had a great conversation and I pointed him in the direction of the Coeliac Soc. I hope his skin cleared up without any scars.

Other symptoms: painful constipation or severe diarrhea (sp?)and I mean major evacuation within 20 mins of eating gluten and staying put for at least 10mins (not me), I get puffy legs and arms like I have flown long haul, increased heart rate - not comfortable, strong headaches, extreme lethagy.

If I eat out, I have my "safe" restaurants where I know they are not lying to me ie: "No there is no flour in the sauce...on the scallops...in the seasoning..." etc, but if I go somewhere new, or I am told it's safe and it's not, I get this tingling/tightness in my calves within 5 mins depending on the quantity, and I know I have just eaten some gluten, ie pan fried goat's cheese covered in flour (who'd have though it?) to stop it collapsing. Had one bite of friend's food and that was it. Balloon like calves.

The reason why coeliacs suffer from aneamia is because the gluten cannot be digested and sits heavily on the intestinal villi which become infected and stunted. Remember human biology and drawing these things and they are like long fingers that wave (!) to catch/absorb the nutrients as the digested food passes by. If they are healthy and long they can do their job. If they are stunted they can't and the child doesn't thrive and the adult is continually tired. They used to diagnose the disease by sending up a camera and a snipper to do a biopsy of the villi to see if it was infected. Now its a simple blood test but has to be taken when the child/adult is on a gluten diet, ie the effects will show in the blood test.

Doctors who smirk should be shot (sorry if there are any Docs reading this) but being patronising really doesn't help. I developed coeliac disease at the age of 15, was diagnosed at 27, and in between that time sometimes fasted on fruit juice and felt on top of the world, and couldn't understand why on "normal food" I felt yeeeukkk.

I have friends in their fifties who are female who have been diagnosed in the last 5-10 years. In their family, there has been somebody with the disease.

My 23 year old DS has only been diagnosed with coeliacs this year, although the consultant he is now under thinks he has probably suffered with it since birth.The only symptoms he had were vague and dismissed by the GP whenever I took him-being underweight despite large appetite,lethargy,itchy skin, and a period of anaemia in his teens, (treated with iron but not investigated). And all it takes to diagnose is a simple blood test!I just wish I had known about it when he was a child.The effects of not being diagnosed can be far-reaching, as my DS now has low bone density as a result of non-absorption of calcium.This can however apparently right itself to a certain extent once you are on correct diet.

Happy1, can you go private? you can't wait such a long time when your child is not thriving and is so lethargic. I would recommend to press the surgery for a referral, but make a private apointment as well, if the NHS apointment comes sooner cancel the private one. I don't think it will be more than 40-80 pounds and surely your son is worth far more. If something is found in the private appointment you can go back with the results to your GP and he will be able to sort a pediatrician immediatly.

If your regular doctor is not helpful, ask for an apointment with another one in the same practice. Sometimes that would make a huge difference.

Hi everyone, Nutty, I don't think you've hijacked my thread!
Thanks for the meal ideas ChicPea, I will try him on gluten free stuff.
How do I go about seeing a private doctor/peadiatrician? Do I ask my doctor or do I look in the yellow pages or something? I don't mind paying, I just want my son to feel better, I remember how ill my sister got before she was diagnosed. My sister probably did have it from birth, as she started getting ill from when she was weaned, but my friends mum didn't develop it until she was 40.