What the hell am i doing wrong......My kids treat me like dirt

[nutcracker]

I know i have posted about probs with my kids behaviour before, so please feel free to read and run off, but i just feel like i am about to go under.

For anyone who doesn't know, i have Dd1 (6), Dd2 (4) and Ds (20mths).
I'm not even sure where to start really, but basically they treat me like s**t.
Dd1 and 2 think they can do what they like, and if i tell them off or ask them not to do something then they scream at me. Dd1 isn't so bad, usually only acts up when she can see Dd2 getting all the attention.
Dd2 will scream and scream at me until she is exhausted.
Ds is copying Dd2's behaviour and has been since he was about 10mths old. He obviously has seen me losing control of the situation and now thinks he can do the same.
The main prob with him though is that I can't seem to get him to understand the most basic instructions.

I don't feel like i'm making much sense and feel like a right moaning old cow, but I really can't see how to change things.

I haven't given them an easy ride, and they do know that they will get punished if they misbehave but they don't seem bothered.

I need Super nanny

How do you punish them, Nutcracker? Do you always follow through on the naughty step stuff?

Btw, I really sympathise have 5, 3 and 18mos myself!

Following through is my biggest prob I admit. I always seem to threatan to do something and then find I have to run off to deal with something else.
I have used the naughty step a couple of times with Dd2 but she just kept on getting back up.

TBH A lot of the time I just find myself standing there dumbstruck, and they look at me knowing they have won.

I've recommended this book before on MN, and only heard about it because someone else recommended it on a thread ages ago, but I really rate a book called The Manipulative Child, by Patrick Cotter and somebody (Ed?) Swihart. The title is really off-putting, but it does deal with how to make your children into the kind of ideal kids that a few of your very smug ex-friends seem to have, who always play nicely together and know the complete works of Shakespeare by heart. No, seriously, it takes a sort of big-picture view of how to make them more respectful, and how to deal with temper tantrums, rudeness and ignoring you (which was one of my biggest problems - my children always assumed that anything I told them to do was optional, unless I was shouting and issuing horrific threats) without completely losing your cool and ending up on the verge of tears. It totally changed the way I reacted to my children - I'd always seen my volatile, rebellious 9yr old dd as the 'problem' one, but after reading this can see that her quieter, 'victim' sister (6) is part of the equation too. Anyway, I'm rambling now, but yours is a problem very close to my heart which I absolutely share, and this book has helped me.

Would do a link, but I'm rubbish at it and it wouldn't work. Sorry

Yes thats exactly it 3princesses. Thats what i was trying to say.

I have brought a few books like that but non seemed to hit the nail on the head.
I will have a look at that one, thanks.

If it works i will be forever in your debt

Thanks for that Sue

Yes, thanks Sue! I've just read some of the reviews and agree that it is hard going to begin with - it just shows how DESPERATE I was that I continued to the useful bit! my copy is full of underlinings as I wanted to highlight all the fabulous, useful, relevant bits - sometimes they do get a little hidden. But, definitely, definitely worth a read.

I really rate the Positive Discipline books, also available through Amazon

I've heard good reviews from a child psychologist friend of '[How to talk to your child so they listen and how to listen to your child so they talk'. Have any MN read this as I was about to go and get it to see if I could get my message through a bit clearer but quieter!!!

Good grief. Must try it!

We've stumbled on something that really works with our 2 and a 1/2 year old. If she won't do something like come into the bathroom and have her teeth cleaned, put her pjs on etc we say 'I'm just going into the other room to wait until you're ready - when you are come and tell me' She'll arrive either almost immediately or in a few minutes depending on how tired and grumpy she is. We've managed to avoid quite alot of confrontation by using this, DH came up with it bless him - it's just another version of what you mentioned I guess issymum.

OK, so what do I do? Because we both tend to lose it and shout at our little angel. And then at each other. And it's not fair on poor little dd2 either.

(Visions of DD1 in PJs for rest of life loom...)

I have always thought that being a lion tamer sounds a nice peaceful job compared with coping with DD1 in a strop...Basically, then, it's reiterating the fact that the little buggers need boundaries and if they don't have them will run even more amok in later life?

I know I am going to sound superior here, but if your children scream at you, does that mean you scream at them? They copy adult behaviour and if you scream at them, they will think that is the right way to communicate. Please believe me, I am not meaning to sound pompous. In fact, I only know this because I scream blue murder at my kids (nearly the same age as yours plus I have an eight year old) and I throw babyish tantrums when things get really bad, and sometimes I see myself in their bad behaviour. You need to concentrate on the 2 older ones as the little one will copy them. I can only say, don't put up with anything you think is unacceptable but don't scream at them (if you do). Sorry, feel I have been really judgemental. Want to advise but don't think I am doing a good job. Will slink off now....

I totally agree shouting is Not Good.

shouting can be very therapeutic for the mother though I find. and it does show the children that grownups have emotions too.

I don't mean always shouting but I think it sometimes can be effective if not done too much.

I never used to shout until my children started answering back/not doing as told/etc etc. Now I really really desparately (sp?!) wish I could stop!

meant to add... "manipulative child" book sounds good but I have soooooo many books on child rearing can I really buy yet another??

DS is only one and I can see the battle lines being drawn. So far, I have been able to not give in. Well, for the most part anyway. If he is throwing a little fit about something I will try to distract him first. If that doesn't work and he is in no danger then I will ignore him which has worked so far. Once he was throwing this really outrageous fit while dm was here. It just struck both of us as so comical. We erupted in giggles and I wound up getting the camara out so that we could embarress him silly later on! When he noticed that he was getting absolutely nowhere he calmed right down.

Of course, I realize this is probably nothing compared to the terrible two's. Oh and then the terrible 'tweens. And I guess the teenage years are a real nightmare.

[Really depressed now. Off for a cup of tea to cheer myself up.]

dunno if anyone else has said it & hope it isn't too obvious, but you say that dd1 usually only acts up when she can see dd2 getting all the attention. Sounds like bad behaviour is what gets your attention & good behaviour goes unnooticed. So can you try completely ignoring bad behaviour/going really ott praise & focussed attention only on child behaving well?

Sorry, also don't mean to sound pmpous or anything. It works so well on the tele (little angels) but I'm no angel or great mother - just had rants at mine & am currently hiding