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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

am i alone in thinking that CC is not a good thing?

34 replies

lucyellensmum · 14/05/2007 14:10

I know it works, well appears to judging by how many people use it. But to leave your child to cry themselves to sleep? I don't get it. There has to be a kinder way.

OP posts:

barbamama · 14/05/2007 14:13

I agree, personally, and the guy who wrote about it Ferber in the states has recently said he has changed his mind and it should not be used on children under 12 months.

LucyJones · 14/05/2007 14:14

there are so mnay versions of it though. The one we used didn't involve just leaving them to cry themselves to sleep. That's why it's called 'controlled'

dinosaur · 14/05/2007 14:16

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

saadia · 14/05/2007 14:18

I think that as long as you can distinguish between distressed crying and crying from tiredness then it's not so bad.

I've never used it but ds2 was able from a very tiny age to go to sleep by himself in his basket and then cot, but he did, a few times have a little cry just before nodding off. We realised he was exhausted and left him, for a few mins at the most and if he carried on then we would take him.

I'm not a fan of the kind off CC where it can go on for hours, I think that's highly counter-productive.

Hulababy · 14/05/2007 14:18

I would never use it on a younger child who couldn't be spoken to and understand what is going on and why.

However I did successfully do CC (although own version with more frequent going into room) when DD was 20 months old. Her language at the time was very good and we did talk about it all in advance. It worked within 3 days without too much hassle each evening. DD was a much happier girl afterwards once she had her sleeping cracked.

GillL · 14/05/2007 14:23

I have tried absolutely everything and I would not use it if I had a choice. I don't see why I should have to spend up to 3 hours a night sitting in my dd's bedroom while she messes about talking to herself and playing in her cot/bed. I go up after 5 minutes to tell dd that I love her and she needs to go to sleep. The next time I go up after 10 minutes. I would never leave her to feel completely abandoned.

Original poster

lucyellensmum · 14/05/2007 14:33

dinosaur, im not wanting a debate, just wondering if there is another way. I just don't see how it works is all. I know pavlov did some rather nasty desensitisation experiments on dogs where they were exposed to noxious stimuli (pain mostly) for hours on end, until they simply lay down and accepted it. Is this not a similar thing. Please please please do not think that i have a problem with parents who do this, i know loads and they clearly love their children but i do think that we should be very careful about following, blindly in some cases, parenting trends. Why am i not surprised this is an american thing.

OP posts:

SoMuchToBits · 14/05/2007 14:45

I think there is a difference between controlled crying, and simply leaving them to cry for a long time. We did cc with our ds when he was very young, but went in to him very frequently, and the longest it took him to go to sleep was about half an hour (with frequent visits from us, but no picking up).

I can see how you might think it would be unkind, but to me it is no more unkind than if your baby reached out and took something from a supermarket shelf that you wern't going to buy, then you gently but firmly removed it from him and put it back. He might be upset that you have taken it away, but if you always let him keep it, he would get used to having what he wanted all the time.

I didn't feel my ds suffered from cc, he is now a very happy, confident 6 year old, and I don't think he ever felt abandoned - he would always still cry if there was something actually wrong, e.g. too hot, or was ill, or had done a poo in his nappy, and we would always come straight away. But it did stop him from crying because he was tired and didn't know how to get himself to sleep.

GillL · 14/05/2007 14:54

Totally agree with SoMuchToBits. You can't let them get away with unacceptable behaviour just so they don't cry. You have to teach children boudaries. CC isn't inflicting pain on them. I'm sure most people would use this as a last resort as I have. I always said I would never try it but it got to the point where I was so frustrated and angry at dd not going to sleep that I ended up in tears every night when she still wasn't asleep at 10pm.

Original poster

lucyellensmum · 14/05/2007 14:58

So, tell me, how does it work? some nights im still there at 10pm DD is 20m now, i wonder if she too old.

OP posts:

SoMuchToBits · 14/05/2007 15:00

I think it is maybe harder when they are older, because they have a more ingrained pattern IYSWIM. I don't have any experience of using it on an older child, but sure it has worked for some. I hope someone who has used it on an older child can give you some advice.

Original poster

lucyellensmum · 14/05/2007 15:06

don't think i could ever persuade my DP TBH

OP posts:

GillL · 14/05/2007 15:12

I don't think she's too old. What I've been doing is taking dd up to bed and reading her a story. I'll then give her a hug and a kiss and tell her that it's time to go to sleep and mummy has to go downstairs. I let her cry for 5 minutes and if she is still crying then I go upstairs, wipe her eyes and nose and tell her that I love her but it is bed time and I have to go back downstairs. She cries as soon as I leave but then I leave it 10 minutes, then go back up. The next time I leave it 20 minutes. Within a few nights she was crying for a few minutes and then going to sleep. I didn't even have to go back upstairs. Last night she cried for about 30 minutes so I made a couple of visits to reassure her but I think she was just testing me (and she was over-tired from having an earlier nap). I'm sure she will be better tonight. Hopefully some others will give you their techniques.

GillL · 14/05/2007 15:15

My dh hasn't been involved so far cos he was always the one who gave in and cuddled dd to sleep. Once she's in a good pattern of going to sleep he'll have a go. He might have a few nights where she tests him to see if he does the same as me but it will definitely be worth it in the end.

Rantum · 14/05/2007 15:17

I mainly used CC in the middle of the night, but I would think that if you want to use it at bedtime then, first and foremost make sure you have a really nice loving bedtime routine in place - a warm bath, low lights in the bedroom, a few stories and a cuddle. If after this your dc won't sleep and gets out of bed, or wakes and cries you just go in every few minutes:

1st time: "goodnight, it is time to go to sleep" with a kiss and hug and put back in bed

2nd time: "goodnight" kiss and hug and put back in bed

3rd time: Kiss and hug and put back in bed

4th time: kiss and hug and put back in bed

5th time: hug and put back in bed

etc

I would never abandon my ds completely. I want to reassure him that I am not far away, but that playing with mummy time is OVER and it is time to go to sleep. Obviously if your child is sick you may respond differently, but if they have just made crying for mummy to stay in the room part of their evening routine, it is a routine that needs to be broken iyswim!

Still, if you are very uncomfortable with it and you don't want to use it then that is your choice, of course!

FrayedKnot · 14/05/2007 15:25

I did what I suppose you would call CC with DS when he was about 13 months.

It was when I thought he was old enough to understand what was happening - I can;t really explain it but I thought he would "get it".

Instead of BF to sleep or when he woke at night, I would settle him in his cot, gently pat and ssh for a minute or two, tell him it was sleepy time and tiptoe out of the room. If he started crying, I would go back in again almost immediately, and resettle him (not picking him up, just pat & sssh).

I would leave again and if he started crying again, leave it a minute or two before going back in.

I never had to go in more than twice and he would be settled & off to sleep within 5-10 minutes each time.

If he was distressed in any way I would stay with him, offer him a B/F or lie with him.

After a week or two he started settling by himslef and apart from when he is ill he has never cried during the night since, and goes happily to bed at night or for a nap.

Only you know your own child but at 20 months I would have thought you could try something similar?

It doesn;t mean leaving them screaming for hours, alone and distressed

ShinyHappyPeopleHoldingHands · 14/05/2007 15:31

Oh Gawd. Haven't been on one of these for ages.. but it so ISN'T about leaving a child to cry themselves to sleep.. it's about teaching a child that nightime is for sleeping and that mummy is here but that she is NOT going to pick you up and get you out of bed.

It takes effort and determination but I NEVER felt like I was torturing my children! (Unlike the torture I had been feeling from needless sleep deprivation.)

Most children will respond well to CC, done properly. I think we owe it to our children to teach them good sleep patterns, never mind ourselves.

Hulababy · 14/05/2007 15:32

lucyellensmum - my DD was 20 months old. Somewher on Mn is my diary of when I did it. I will go and look for it for you.

Original poster

lucyellensmum · 14/05/2007 15:38

frayed and rantum, to me what you are describing isnt CC, and seems perfectly reasonable. My DD doesnt arse about at bed time, we have a lovely routine, bath (most nights) storey, bottle snuggle, and bed, the trouble is, bed seems to be with mummy balancing on the end of her bed holding dd's hand. She doesnt mess around or anything, just lays there and i can see she is "trying" to sleep, sometimes she wriggles and makes singing noises. I think our problem is that she is still in our room (hers not ready) and that she wakes in the night and i have to do the whole hand holding thing which is a pain in the arse. I got this far with "gradual withdrawal" as recommended by HV, when i said to her "what, are you mad, im not leaving DD to cry!" So have gone from DD sleeping in our bed to holding her in cot to hand holding, but cant get passed this, the couple of nights i have attempted to leave her, she has played in her cot for much longer than she takes to settle (half hour to an hour usually) and ive ended up going and holding her hand anyway cos cannot bear to hear her distressed. These nights have been the worse for disrupted sleep as she has had night terrors and woke up distraught. What to do, what to do!!

OP posts:

Hulababy · 14/05/2007 15:38

lucyellensmum - \link{http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk?topicid=5&threadid=15947#367494\This was back in 2003/4 when DD was 20 monhts old.

Hulababy · 14/05/2007 15:38

lucyellensmum - This was back in 2003/4 when DD was 20 monhts old.

Original poster

lucyellensmum · 14/05/2007 15:41

shiney, i dont get her out of her bed, just hold her hand

OP posts:

Original poster

lucyellensmum · 14/05/2007 15:41

shiney, i dont get her out of her bed, just hold her hand

OP posts:

ShinyHappyPeopleHoldingHands · 14/05/2007 15:42

Ok, I was responding to your first post and about concepts of CC generally

Rantum · 14/05/2007 15:43

Yes, there seems to be a misconception that you just heartlessly leave your child crying and crying for hours on end. OF COURSE NOT!

But you do need to understand that it is about TEACHING a child how to soothe themselves to sleep - I see it as a method of gradually teaching my ds a very limited level amount of self-reliance - something that can be built upon so that he can be secure about his relationship with his Mummy and Daddy, BUT also be secure in his relationship with himself.

The method is really about parents learning to remain calm in order to provide a gentle and clear routine for sleep.

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